Sorry charlie - I'm not hiding behind anything, nor am I abusing anything. I serve my country when my unit needs me and I take military leave to do it. That includes everything from deploying on long or short TDY's to one or two days here and there to keep all my required currencies. I've done it in the past and I will continue to do it. It's my right as a military member AND it is my duty to be the best fighting/training aviator I can be. I owe it to my country to be ready and current at any point my government needs me. That includes balancing military duties with airline flying.

When I take military leave, I AM always on military duty. Don't you dare call me a "sharpshooter" or whatever other garbage you think is fitting. You have zero clue who I am, nor do I with you. If my unit needs me to deploy or fly over a holiday, you bet your a$$ I'm going to do it to support whatever mission is required of me. If they need me on a Wednesday in August, I'll do the exact same thing. I don't discriminate on which days I take mil leave...I do it because that is my duty.

You want to make this personal, be my guest. My integrity is solid as a rock and I'm proud of all I've done - from my days at the Academy to now as a major and USAF flyer. Never once have I cheated or taken the easy road on any task, and I say that with the upmost sincerity.

I'll gladly welcome any of your further spears...by all means fire away (even if you still have "NO" respect for me).

Yes and amen!!!!

Well said. I think these are conversations that are best had face to face. There is SO much context missing in a keyboard conversation (I'm not talking about intimidation by size). I don't think anyone who spends any amount of time with me would even consider making the accusations that krudawg threw at me right off the bat. His ease in making serious accusations, without ANY personal knowledge of the target, says more about him than any of us. The fact is that there are many different 'flavors' of reservists, and their required duty is very different. A pilot in a fighter unit will have different demands than a tanker or airlift pilot. An IMA at the Pentagon will have different requirements than a COCOM watch officer in EUCOM/PACOM/CENTCOM/ect... I don't feel any need to justify my actions to any individual pilot. If a flight manager would like to discuss my work patterns then I'd be game for that. To top all of this off, unless someone has lived the post 9-11 ops tempo in the reserves, they will not understand what we're juggling. We should put them in a room with our wives and have THEM explain it

Like I said, I have no respect for you. Quit waving the flag in my face trying to obfuscate your motives. Use your seniority or quit the airlines. You have a guaranteed 12 days off each month from UAL. You are not working for free in the reserves, as a matter of fact, you are paid better there than at UAL (if you are an F/O). Quit crying about your sacrifices and quit dragging the rest of us into your reserve duty. Bid your days off you need and go do your reserve obligation. Bang! thats my last grenade, I'm leaving this topic

Also from YOU:
Seems YOU just can't control YOURSELF...perhaps it's an age thing? Old and cranky.... I think that maybe YOU should close YOUR whining pie hole and let this thread die.

Oh. Maybe you can tell me this? When you turn 60 (if you haven't already) are you going to retire or hide behind the age 65 law?

Gentlemen,
This part of the topic has gone on for several pages. BLUF you will not get the other to agree with your positions...If you are in the mil you are protected and required to take ML when necessary to serve the US.
Reserves are needed to keep the draft at bay. This country needs personnel from all crafts to be in service.

Regardless if you serve and we all have reasons why we do aka we took an oath.
Do not abuse the power but exercise the power when needed so those that do not can have the right to exercise their right to complain about those who have done so, no matter how grating it may be.

Birdman
BTV

Krudawg-

Has it occurred to you that many units require anywhere for 5-12 days a month just to maintain currency? Furthermore many, such as myself, have a service obligation which we incurred because we had to during the post 9/11 round of furloughs.

A couple years ago I was asked to fly a 2 week aero-med mission in and out of Afghan. Its last date was 23 Dec. As a very junior line holder I had a trip from 22-25 with UAL. ML touched the trip, trip dropped. Unfortunately the ML mission occurs over holidays, call your senator and maybe we can put the war on hold over weekends and holidays

First, I'm not telling this to ask for your permission or approval much less sympathy. Let me ask you a question, what would you do? I did bid my seniority (as if any of us have a choice in this). Did I get Christmas off when I would not have otherwise, yes, am I supposed to somehow feel bad because of this, hell no. Maybe you would have picked up a trip on the 24th just because you feel you owed it to your fellow UA pilots, which is your choice. I however have no desire to work 18 days in a row, much less try to fly a 3-4 day domestic trip after I have been bouncing between timezones for 2 weeks straight, would you? Maybe I should just resign my seniority and become a part-timer in the guard/reserve because I have 5+ years left on my commitment? Would you? Furthermore, who is going to volunteer to fly the wounded home if every guard/reservist is supposed to "fly there seniority"? Active duty CANNOT fight this war by itself (again call your senator, I didn't make this world). Would it matter if I told you a young reservist soldier died on the way back home on one of my flights? Wonder if his co-workers were jealous that he didn't have to work Christmas at his job or were concerned how much it was costing his employer.

I know this is just one example, and definitely on the far end of the scale, the other end being a guy who just needs to fly a local with his unit for currency. I'm not trying to make you feel bad just trying to point out there is A LOT you are missing when you "think" somebody is just "sharpshooting" the system!! Please refrain from judging others.

Maybe this needs to be talked about more, obviously you are uncomfortable or just plain close-minded on the issue, hence you keep trying to have this thread locked.

I don't know you, maybe we met once, so please don't take this as a personal attack or pile on. You and a few others here have struck a nerve which can be boiled down to a lack of understanding. We are not your enemy, we are not why your QOL at whatever airline is so bad. If there is somebody who is taking ML leave without being on ML duty I as would every other ML/civ guy would be the first to call them on it because what USERA is about is trust between all parties. Nobody should abuse it any more than a captain might abuse captains authority. But this abuse that you have such an issue with is like .1% of the occurrences. Let mgmt, the unit and others be the police, for now, we are on the same side.

Best wishes-

KC

Have to ask. How do you know it is .1%? Thus are you admitting that abuse actually takes place?

The 767 FO's are skewing that average if I am to believe the bravado. I have even asked them what happens if they get caught and every single one has said they have a CO that covers for them. One in particular was upset when the company asked him for orders he didn't have. He spent the better part of a transcon trying to figure out a way to use USERRA to protect his lack of orders. He just wanted time off.

That's the integrity side of ML I get to see. There is plenty more FO's that I hear talking about milking the system. If you are going to toss out an unscientific .1%, I'll throw in an equally unscientific 20% that abuse ML.

No scientific data here, it is a guess like yours.

Lets first try to define what abuse is. I can only speak for my unit but I have never heard of anybody using ML leave without actual ML duty. That's all the law really requires. Whether it is flying a local, going to a required drill weekend or just manning the office, all are viewed equally according to USERRA, deliberately. Its intent is to allow workers the time off to perform whatever military duty their unit needs or is required without negative repercussions. Its no more perfect than anything else but it is what it is. If you have a better way I'd love to hear it, however, just tossing us all out is not the answer.

To side with you, if a guy is ML dropping WITHOUT ML duty then that is abuse and should be dealt with by others. Having orders is really not an indicator however. There are something like 12-14 different pay statuses in the military and not all are the classic set of orders most people think. If I come in a fly a local on an AFTP I will have ZERO paperwork to show an employer ahead of time, aside from the letter from my supervisor. Even orders are hard to get ahead of time, I deploy in a week for 85 days and still have no orders in hand (it is a government system!).

My point is don't rush to judgment and ask questions. I can't speak for the FO you flew with as a I don't have all of the specifics. When I was on the property I was always very careful how I used ML and what I said so to the other guy so that there would be no confusion. I can tell you an airline/guard combo is a lot like having two wives, neither is completely happy with you all the time and sometimes all you want is to just get away from both (hence why a guy is happy about NOT having to fly that entire 95 hr crappy PBS line in addition to 8 days at the base, hence "subjugating" their seniority). If you fly with a guy who is ecstatic because they got a day off as a result of ML dropping something please bear in mind that they probably had to give up something first to get to that result.

Finally, honoring the seniority system in the process really is not possible all the time. If you were on reserve and had to fly that Christmas trip because I was out on a mission, sorry dude, but please at least learn the facts and give your co-worker the benefit of the doubt before you make up your mind. You have every right to ask and we have every right to fully explain.

KC

Excellent!