I don't like the method, but I think I see the logic. Since APA can't sway AMR, then the only way to end the policy is to make AMR get hurt. If enough of AA pilots get bumped and are forced to use the commuter clause, AMR would (hopefully) realize it is cheaper to let a bunch of regional guys ride, than to use more reserves or cancel flights.

The question is, can Mesaba (or PinneCoSaba if the other MECs join in) have a significant affect on AMR?

I agree 73, starting to deny AA guys the jumpseat is ridiculous and the wrong way to fix this. I wish you guys the best of luck with your negotiations, you guys deserve a lot in return for the crap you've dealt with.

That being said, this is an issue that effects OAL guys and doesn't effect you guys as you can just list as non-revs to get the ride. I've been on the losing end of this deal a few times with many seats open in the back and it SUCKS. Your crews have always been very professional and sympathetic and I know their hands are tied. This has been going on for a few years now and I think some jumpseat committees are getting frustrated with the lack of reciprocity. Especially because this rule is only applicable to some carriers and not others.

I don't agree with it, but I'm also not surprised, that committees are starting to restrict AA guys. You said this was far down your guys list of priorities which is understandable, any suggestions as to another avenue OAL guys could take to help fix this?

I will not play the double standard game in my jumpseat. What's good for my fellow XJ pilots is the standard that I will follow for any AA pilot. It's obvious that AMR management doesn't have much regard for us so I don't think this will hurt anybodys chances on future hiring they already are showing they don't like us.

BE24, couple of points.
First, AA pilots have gone well out of their way to help get me on an airplane numerous times over the last 20 years. I assure you that AA pilots are your friend.

Second, life isn't fair; as long as AA is bigger and has a larger route structure than your carrier, their management will assume they are superior to your airline and that you need them more than they need you. It is what it is.

Third, the Golden Rule applies.

Finally, commuting requires an exceptionally thick skin. Just smile and move on.

Restricting AA pilots to one jumpseater just because of their company policy is playing right into AMR Management's hand.

It's not just 'a bunch of regional guys'. Some regional guys have unlimited domestic on AA (a large national presence and an extensive ORD operation - for UAL Express - is usually is the key, as AA has DFW locked up), but most large carriers (Air Tran, Jet Blue, etc) are limited domestic only, just like the 'regional guys'. AA has played a game where they do 'just enough' to placate the few airlines their pilots need for commuting, giving unlimited on all flights to the legacy carriers (and a couple randoms - Aloha had unlimited on all flights), unlimited domestic to a few regionals they needed, and giving the cold shoulder to everyone else.

There may come a time when AA's 'holier than thou' attitude and APA's lack of negotiating capital devoted to this issue will have repercussions. SWAPA and SWA strong-armed AA on this issue, and it worked (they're also the largest domestic airline in the US). The golden rule is meant to set an example, with the expectation that your example might one day be followed. How long do you set the example and let others benefit from your charity? The 'originator' of the golden rule (religion) has been engaged in charity for centuries.

APA took concessions after 9/11 and didn't get unlimited jumpseats for all off-line pilots (this is where most other legacy airlines got it, but they took larger concessions than APA pilots did too). Well, now APA is working on a new contract. If the new contract doesn't make any gains for off-line jumpseaters, then perhaps its time to re-evaluate. It won't be easy, though. To get real movement on this issue, you really need to get the support of the pilot groups that already have unlimited domestic and unlimited on all flights. That's asking primarily ALPA mainline pilots to give something up for primarily ALPA regional pilots (and non-ALPA pilots, should union affiliation be an issue?) and pretty much declaring a jumpseat war on APA pilots for a stance that APA doesn't support, but just doesn't fight hard enough for. Should off-line pilots be the judge of APA's own negotiating priorities? What if Delta and United pilots decide to limit jumpseat access to AA pilots to one seat per aircraft, and DL and UA management asks them to apply this policy to all airlines, not just AA - ie, this could back-fire. A very delicate situation indeed.

APA should be given every opportunity to solve this themselves.

Ya'll have been fighting this fight for how long? 10 years? I got in this business in 98 and it was an issue then. Don't leave guys at the gate start giving them buddy passes if you don't want us to leave AA guys. Doing all ya can? Have you given out 1 pass? Have rode on a pass so another guy could JS? Prob yes for the second but I doubt yes to the first.

Can't just "issue" a buddy pass - lots of TSA-regulated info needed from the other person. Plus, we are only limited to a certain amount of buddy pass riders, and for most of us that list is taken up by family/friends.

aa73 is correct in this. "Buddy" passes are restricted to 24 per year, and the "buddy" has to be listed on the employee's pass travel list. They can not just be GIVEN away randomly. Not only that, but once a person is actually placed on an emplyee's list, that person can't be removed for 12 months. No one will do that for some random unknown jumpseater.

I hope this gets worked out, btw.

[QUOTE=BE24pilot;988772]I don't understand why your union restricts jump seats to only one person for MES, 9E, 9L pilots.... TE]





Anyone know if Delta mainline pilots are restricted as well?