I instructed from an entirely different aircraft on many occasions.

Hopefully you got to log the PIC...

I see, in multiple places in the quoted reg, variations of "as a pilot"--in other words, that time is applicable for those who have logged it as a pilot. Does merely having an FAA pilot certificate render any time with flight controls as qualified time, without regard to what status the crew member is actually flying under? I don't buy it....

Maybe. The regs in question were not written to account for this scenario. Like I said, there are plenty of legit ways to log civilian time that don't require a control station. NFOs and Wizzos doing their mission with hands on flight controls are acquiring more useful aeronautical experience than folks logging time without even a stick or yoke.

Don't let your natural innate hatred of backseaters color your view on this

All that said, it's probably a bad idea to log it if you're airline bound...they might view that as "creative" logging.

I have none. Rather, I have an understanding of English, and the cited passage seems clear to me. OBTW, the FAA appears to agree, based on the earlier discussion in this thread (and I have no insight beyond what I've read here).

I was teasing. The FAA opinion is generally clear but there is certainly anecdotal evidence of folks pulling it off in the past. Unfortunately, as in so many things, the FAA is not consistent from one FSDO to another (kind of like TSA). I personally know an S-3 guy who logged it (also an FAA CFI), but he's still on AD so not sure if he's ever going to put it to the test with FAA or airlines.

Thanks for answering my question.

In any case, it would seem to me that the "second in command" issue doesn't matter. Assuming the pilot is an "instructor pilot",... and for the sake of the argument, let's say they are also an FAA-rated instructor... could they not provide instruction to the WSO in the backseat/rightseat?

Real "cut-and-dry"... right?

§61.160 Aeronautical experience—airplane category restricted privileges.

(a) Except for a person who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a U.S. military pilot or former U.S. military pilot may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate concurrently with an airplane type rating with a minimum of 750 hours of total time as a pilot if the pilot presents:

(1) An official Form DD-214 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty) indicating that the person was honorably discharged from the U.S. Armed Forces or an official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the pilot is currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces; and

(2) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person graduated from a U.S. Armed Forces undergraduate pilot training school and received a rating qualification as a military pilot.


[Doc. No. FAA-2010-0100, 78 FR 42375, July 15, 2013]

Folks have pulled off stuff in the past like that, less so these days than before. With the rules and information being close at hand and accessible, it really cuts down on those types of happenings where one hand didn't know what the other was doing. It seems like a few though have taken advantage of the situations over the years and gotten stuff that is not allowed, some have been caught, not all.

In late 1986 Republic Airlines was in a hurry to hire, and in all likely hood "expedited" the process. There was a pilot to be known here as Scary Jerry who had a hazy background..His pilot certificates were from light aircraft flying at base aeroclubs. And his complex time logged was KC10 time......He succeeded in fooling the system cause he was a boom operator for those hours he logged and hit a seam in the hiring dynamic now Scary J never fully owned up to this BUT he never checked out as captain, and was "carried" by the rest of the crew on virtually every flight. He was fired for misconduct after a long and abysmal career. Somehow he fooled a FSDO and at least one airline human resources dept. And managed to get by in a training environment if only by hook crook and skin of teeth.