Just some numbers to show what has happened over the last 40 years using the CPI calculator.

In 1974 Delta signed the first contract that would have 747 Captains over $100,000 a year. In 2014 dollars that would be over $483,000.

My last year as a B747 F/O at Tigers earned $111,000. In 2014 that would be $254,000. No such thing as Draft/VLT. Normal schedule.

In 1974 Airline pilot retirement pay was around $36,000 per year. In 2014 that is $173,000.

I think your "Blue collar" attitude might be limiting us in negotiations!

This company hired most of us specifically because we are "professionals." Most of us have significant education and managerial experience that allows us to both work together to solve problems, and to use our background to actually solve those many issues that pop up every day on the line.

Perhaps if we viewed ourselves as the white-collar workers that we are, we would be more aggressive in negotiations, demanding the compensation and work rules that we have both earned, and that maintain a professional level of competence at this unique airline.

Samuel Gompers...I don't think so!

"This company hired most of us specifically because we are "professionals." Most of us have significant education and managerial experience that allows us to both work together to solve problems, and to use our background to actually solve those many issues that pop up every day on the line."

Well, you might be right about that.

"Perhaps if we viewed ourselves as the white-collar workers that we are, we would be more aggressive in negotiations, demanding the compensation and work rules that we have both earned, and that maintain a professional level of competence at this unique airline."

I think you're wrong about that. Many of the blue collar workers know how to make it happen a lot better than the white collars ones.

We need some instruction from the SEIU and the Longshoremen.

This discussion is funny. I know what each of you is getting at.

When it comes time to implement fuel sense and the myriad of other changes to our procedures we are praised for being highly educated, motivated professionals.

When it comes to contract negotiations we are blue collar workers with no special skills.

When it comes to getting help for employer abuse (CBA violations) and needlessly stalled contract talks we are considered potential enemies of the state. Just research the RLA, cargo cutout and labor relations in the U.S.

I must confess, I'm more than a bit surprised there is any question, much less controversy about where we stand in the labor/management food chain. I didn't intend to start a debate -- I thought it was intuitively obvious.

Management did not hire me because of an advanced degree, or because of previous managerial experience. They hired me because I can fly their airplane. When I was hired, they also hired pilots without undergraduate degrees, and they even hired pilots who didn't have their ATP certificate. If they were looking for anything beyond the skill to fly their airplanes, I would say it was a proclivity to complete a mission at all costs, even if it meant personal sacrifice (i.e., forget the rules, just move the freight).

Today, the stated goal of the shrink-driven hiring protocol is to hire a pilot who will successfully complete training. Former managers, pilots with Masters and Doctorate degree, former Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, and astronauts are all placed on the same hourly scale with the lowly CRJ pilots. (CRJ guys -- please take that as sarcasm, and not an insult. I know you've worked just as hard or harder to get here.)

If someone identifies himself as more special than a blue collar worker, I suggest he ask his immediate supervisor for the raise he deserves, as an individual. He should bring it up at his next performance review, and he should ask for a raise commensurate with the high ratings he has scored by moving the freight under the most adverse conditions. He should count his BZ's like he counted Air Medals on his military officer performance reports -- more points should trigger bigger bonuses and bigger raises. He shouldn't forget to tell his supervisor how he has acted as the problem solver when the ramp agent thought freight might have to be left behind, but he found a way to get it to the sort on time, or how he waived duty limitations so he could fly that last leg, tired and ragged though he was, back to base and his own bed. He should suggest that he be bumped ahead of his lower-performing peers senior to him because he's more special, and he deserves better treatment.

Not only does The Company consider us to be hourly workers, they would like to classify us as part-time laborers. None of us has the ability to individually negotiate our own pay or benefits. We have a skill, and we are paid by the hour to employ that skill. Our intelligence, training, and mission-oriented attitudes do not change the fact that we are, and will be dealt with as blue collar workers.

It's up to us to recognize that fact, and to act with the unity, determination, and resolve required to successfully negotiate the contract we have earned.






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Stemmed? Snob.


What's wrong with ...







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I am with PicklePausePull on this one. Just because we are paid by the hour does not make us "blue collar workers". Lawyers, physicians, accountants, psychiatrists and most self employed professionals are paid by the hour. I doubt that any of them would consider themselves "blue collar". To become a professional pilot requires specialized education, training and skill set. We conform to technical and ethical standards of this profession. We gain our livelihood from being professional pilots. And for the record no one addresses me as captain except crew scheduling when they call and most Asian desk clerks who refer to all crew members as "Captain".
Cheers, the ATM

Well said Tony C

You're missing the point.

Successful collective bargaining demands a certain mindset that labor unions (blue collar types) have spent a generation perfecting.

So called white collar professionals often act like independent contractors.

This tendency produces less optimal results in the reality that is OUR system.

Do lawyers, physicians and psychiatrists spend a year on probation on an artificially low first year pay?

When they change jobs at a high pay rate (like an experienced airline Captain) do they have to go back to a "just out of law school" pay rate like airline pilots?


Give me a break. We're talking about compensation and work rules.