I don't see anyone being belittled for their frustration...if anything I agree with much of what he says, albeit with some corrections and a different version of "reality" (whatever that really is).

For starters, it's my understanding there are 126 managers, or what we prefer to call NURPS. Given how most pilots self-manage their cockpits and themselves, that's likely 122 too many. Their true impact on potential hiring is unknown, but of course it's a scourge whose roots go back far and deep, and more than one person and entity is responsible for it.

As for losing friends to HAZMAT and fatigue, these things are not unique to UPS, but like the NURPs are also a scourge whose roots go back far and deep, and more than one person is responsible for it.

The most unique thing about UPS is the management structure and M.O., which like NURPs, HAZMAT and fatigue is yet another scourge whose roots go back...over a century. But...in the end ONE person is responsible for THAT, as leadership does indeed trickle down from the top of any organization. Pretty much every CEO of UPS has been cut of the same cloth, but IMO Davis has pretty much been the worst. Sure, Jim Kelly was a knee breaking thug who was sent to whack Teamsters and us with very limited...as in no success and Eskew was mediocre, but since Max Profit hit the scene, knee breaking labor has been wed with ruthless cost cutting and merger failure unlike anything ever seen here before. A comparable outsider rises on the back of Supply Chain Solutions, and ever since has been like a teenager handed whiskey and car keys. Blowing DHL, TNT, USPS and last peak gotten him over 11% annual raises and bonus/stock packages that rival the GDP of some eastern bloc countries while the once revered concept of service has been turned into a bumper sticker. Every person does more for less and service failures, which under Jim Kelly were unacceptable have become part of the business plan.

Now clearly Davis doesn't directly manage us...there's a whole bunch of his underlings at work doing that exclusive of the NURPs. They decide fleet size and composition. They decide how "labor" operates. They decide city pairs and service offerings. They negotiate with the institutional customers.

BUT...they ALL know how Davis thinks...what Davis wants. They know that the only way to please him is to cut costs, cut costs and cut costs. Airplanes are a cost. We are a cost. Yeah, yeah...I know we have a "new" CEO, but Davis is still on the BOD, and who really knows if the new boss is any different than the old boss.

All that being said, it is their company and they write the checks. In the real world, unless the government nationalizes it and we all get paid less it is what it is. While that frustrates me to an extent, I gotta ask...

What can WE do about that?

As has been detailed endlessly, the antiquated Railway Labor Act serves as handcuffs on us, and a boon to the company as applied today and as we enter the forth year of negotiations. While that frustrates me...a lot, I gotta ask...

What can WE do about that?

I flew for two non-scheds with no union, and virtually no work rules aside from FAR's that were dubiously observed. Many I flew with were EAL and CAL scabs, but many did not cross or crawl back. They ALL told me the way to most influence a good contract is not to strike or engage in illegal or unethical acts, but to strangle them with their OWN rules and a slavish knowledge of and adherence to the contract.

THAT we CAN do. If we have the fortitude and knowledge of their rules and our contract.

While I have Expectation Zero for UPS to EVER do the right thing, the RLA to change or government to rescue us, I DO have confidence in IPA and my fellow pilots.

Anything less...fighting each other and complaining about what we cannot control is little more than chin music...and useless music at that.

We in year what...4 of negotiation? Guys I fly with continue to ask for ARTR to block out early and repeatedly ask for directs.

Clueless.

To clarify my previous post the American pilots had their A-Fund frozen (stopped) in bankruptcy, but their B-fund was increased to 16%. Most of my best friends in this business are American pilots and they were really upset, especially since they only have, at best another 10-15 years left to recover.

I understand that Vito. The F/O's here at UPS have had there career frozen and are really upset about that. Whatever seat we were in when the furlough ended is where F/O's with 10-15yrs left will be with their schedules. For the bottom 30% of the list that equals meatgrinder backside of the clock domestic or constant international circadian rythm disruptions or getting to know your crash pad family so well you finish each other's sentances. On this next contract F/O's will mostly be concerned with F/O pay-rates and F/O retirements.

UPS has decided to grow without the IPA through Supply Chain Solutions. All you need to do is look at the international MD-11 and whale fleets where zero capital investment has been spent. And no replacements are being purchased and A no-growth plan is in effect. The SCS lose ends are picked up by the 757/767 fleet inter-Asia or inter-Europe. The chief pilot even gets confused in his Friday hotline and proudly announces new Vietnam service, IPA pilots dont fly. We fly only one 747 into India one of the worlds largest growing economies, while the competition carpet bombs the country with airplanes.

Concerning our A-plan it needs to be based solely on years of service and not what seat you are in, because most F/O's will never see captain here.

I guess it depends if your going to go back or try for the legacy airlines on if you already have a number. If you know someone that has a number and can get you an interview and you have more than 15-20yrs of flying left to do.

9yrs here at UPS means nothing concerning job protection or any less threat of furlough. So it's not really starting over at the bottom when you are already at the bottom of a no-growth list which is planned to shrink through out-sourcing, and more upsizing of aircraft.

At least a guy that's been here 9yrs gets 9yrs of service on his A-plan.

You are absolutely wrong about that. Blocking out early does nothing to help out UPS. In fact in most cases, if you are flying into SDF, showing up early is a hindrance to the operation.

Every flight goes to SDF? typical day these airplanes turn in less than 3 hours in HKG. Most flights now are added with the dreaded stop in TPE or ICN on the way to ANC with short time for them to sort their stuff. As dangerous as those pairings are...we NEED NOT be helping them.

We b1tch and moan about fatigue inducing lines but go out of our way to make it work FOR THEM.

And what's wrong with being on their ramp until scheduled time and keep their workers around a bit longer?

I guess this is a social club after all?

UPSpilott...

Have you contacted the EB for guidance? Sure sounds like you need some.

Pilot7576

Need to call the EB for guidance on common sense? How about not helping the same people who are raping our contract daily?

Yes, maybe you will get the "bigger picture" for negotiations instead of being an independent contractor. And you still haven't answered the question from the other thread...what was ur month/year of hire?

Pilot7576

And this is so important because? I am bottom 300. Does that help?