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AA and the legacies have gone through a lot of consolidation, mergers, and angst over the last decade. What is emerging is an airline that has less competition than fifteen years ago and a better handle of costs. Is is furlough-proof? I don't think there is such a thing, but the business appears to be more stable and more profitable than its been in a long time.
SWA is betting on international growth. They may succeed beyond our wildest vision, but I am willing to be they have some growing pains. No catering is hardly a reason to skip an airline, but it does give you a glimpse into some of the challenges a LCC faces when it decides to start flying internationally. They are going to have to tweak a lot of the their SOPs and business model to be effective. Any upgrade predictions at SWA are based on growth of the new model. Conversely, upgrades at AA are based largely on retirements.
Another interesting consideration is regional feed. AA has preserved flow through agreements, and hires about 25% off the street for their classes, with returnees and flow throughs filling the rest of the seats. That doesn't help the guy on the street wanting to get hired, and its not my favorite model as a guy with an interview prep business. But...when I look at the disasters at Endeavor and Republic where they cancel flights due to lack of crews, and then look at what AA in doing at Envoy, I do have to go "hmmm.....I sort of see their AAdvantage here...." I think they are working hard to keep their feeders alive. Delta went the other way and is bringing a lot of the small jet stuff in house. Both are working the problem from different angles.
For all the guys who have read "Nuts" and worship the culture at SWA, remember that book was written in 1996. It may be SWA's history, but reading the future is a bit murkier. You hate to bet against a perpetual winner, but SWAPA just rejected a TA, and the labor relations there are starting to look a lot like every other airline.
My other suggestion (and I did this with FedEx and Jetblue back in 2001) is grab a couple bidpacks from both companies, and look at what you could expect to fly at various points in your career. Mentally compare the jobs and see what you think you'd like. In 2001, I thought I was comparing day flying at an exciting new company (JB) to night flying in a 727 (at FDX). After reviewing bidpack, what I realized was that as a commuter, my best trips were going to be red eye transcons out of JFK. Once I realized I was comparing nights to nights, then pay and benefits and stability were comparison points, and FDX won easily. The rub was the delay in upgrade time (8 months verses 7-8 years). The fact that a FDX FO made as much as a JB captain at the time was enough to make the decision fairly easy. You might find that even at a lower pay rate, flying a 767 to Rio or Santiago will make you more money and give you more time off. Then again, you might find living in domicile for SWA you'll do better as a senior FO than commuting to a legacy. Try a few combinations and see what you think you would be happy doing and break out the calculator.
The final point to consider is "will coming to work be fun or suck?" Only one guy knows the answer, and that's the guy in the mirror. My disclaimer is I never even applied to SWA, because I knew no matter how much I made or quickly I upgraded, I was not going to get what I wanted out a career there. My dream was Pan Am circa 1970, or Delta 1980...flying big jets around the globe. At FedEx I've flown the 727 in two seats domestic, and the MD-11 as an FO all over the world. I am now a 767 captain based in Hong Kong. I love the variety of my job, and the window to the world it creates, not just the dollars in the paycheck and the other benefits. So--if it were me--I'd be at AA hoping for MIA and flying all over the world, probably commuting from a nice place with good beaches and bays to enjoy my days off. But that's me... If you live in Phoenix or Vegas and love it there, SWA might be a perfect fit, but you are going to spending (I suspect) the majority of your career bouncing around American cities doing AM or PM flights. I have plenty of friends who are happy there, and that's enough. But I have enjoyed my time in Paris, Japan, India, Brazil, and dozens of other places the last dozen years, and I can say honestly my work has never been "boring", and I am excited to go and get to do what I do. As long as you are grinning when you pack, you probably are making a good decision....
Originally Posted by Albief15
I have friends at both companies, and everyone feels pretty good about where are they. However, they have different vectors right now.AA and the legacies have gone through a lot of consolidation, mergers, and angst over the last decade. What is emerging is an airline that has less competition than fifteen years ago and a better handle of costs. Is is furlough-proof? I don't think there is such a thing, but the business appears to be more stable and more profitable than its been in a long time.
SWA is betting on international growth. They may succeed beyond our wildest vision, but I am willing to be they have some growing pains. No catering is hardly a reason to skip an airline, but it does give you a glimpse into some of the challenges a LCC faces when it decides to start flying internationally. They are going to have to tweak a lot of the their SOPs and business model to be effective. Any upgrade predictions at SWA are based on growth of the new model. Conversely, upgrades at AA are based largely on retirements.
Another interesting consideration is regional feed. AA has preserved flow through agreements, and hires about 25% off the street for their classes, with returnees and flow throughs filling the rest of the seats. That doesn't help the guy on the street wanting to get hired, and its not my favorite model as a guy with an interview prep business. But...when I look at the disasters at Endeavor and Republic where they cancel flights due to lack of crews, and then look at what AA in doing at Envoy, I do have to go "hmmm.....I sort of see their AAdvantage here...." I think they are working hard to keep their feeders alive. Delta went the other way and is bringing a lot of the small jet stuff in house. Both are working the problem from different angles.
For all the guys who have read "Nuts" and worship the culture at SWA, remember that book was written in 1996. It may be SWA's history, but reading the future is a bit murkier. You hate to bet against a perpetual winner, but SWAPA just rejected a TA, and the labor relations there are starting to look a lot like every other airline.
My other suggestion (and I did this with FedEx and Jetblue back in 2001) is grab a couple bidpacks from both companies, and look at what you could expect to fly at various points in your career. Mentally compare the jobs and see what you think you'd like. In 2001, I thought I was comparing day flying at an exciting new company (JB) to night flying in a 727 (at FDX). After reviewing bidpack, what I realized was that as a commuter, my best trips were going to be red eye transcons out of JFK. Once I realized I was comparing nights to nights, then pay and benefits and stability were comparison points, and FDX won easily. The rub was the delay in upgrade time (8 months verses 7-8 years). The fact that a FDX FO made as much as a JB captain at the time was enough to make the decision fairly easy. You might find that even at a lower pay rate, flying a 767 to Rio or Santiago will make you more money and give you more time off. Then again, you might find living in domicile for SWA you'll do better as a senior FO than commuting to a legacy. Try a few combinations and see what you think you would be happy doing and break out the calculator.
The final point to consider is "will coming to work be fun or suck?" Only one guy knows the answer, and that's the guy in the mirror. My disclaimer is I never even applied to SWA, because I knew no matter how much I made or quickly I upgraded, I was not going to get what I wanted out a career there. My dream was Pan Am circa 1970, or Delta 1980...flying big jets around the globe. At FedEx I've flown the 727 in two seats domestic, and the MD-11 as an FO all over the world. I am now a 767 captain based in Hong Kong. I love the variety of my job, and the window to the world it creates, not just the dollars in the paycheck and the other benefits. So--if it were me--I'd be at AA hoping for MIA and flying all over the world, probably commuting from a nice place with good beaches and bays to enjoy my days off. But that's me... If you live in Phoenix or Vegas and love it there, SWA might be a perfect fit, but you are going to spending (I suspect) the majority of your career bouncing around American cities doing AM or PM flights. I have plenty of friends who are happy there, and that's enough. But I have enjoyed my time in Paris, Japan, India, Brazil, and dozens of other places the last dozen years, and I can say honestly my work has never been "boring", and I am excited to go and get to do what I do. As long as you are grinning when you pack, you probably are making a good decision....
If I could thumbs up this post I would. I've met Albie and will say he is great at what he does and has some great insight. He brings up great points.
I will say as a guy in the "least desirable" new hire AA job (E190 FO PHL) I absolutely love the job. My commute sucks and is always possibly a two legger, but at the end of the day even with the crummy rates after year 1 in the right seat of the 190 I have had a blast and am very grateful for the opportunity. I know that the 190 is temporary and that much growth hopefully lies around the corner.
After 11 months I am holding a commutable line, getting holidays off and I still smile like Albie said above when I pack. (Just don't whistle when the wife is around)
Anyways, best of luck to you with your decision and once you make it don't look back.
Someone once said, "You know why they make the window in front so much bigger than the rear view mirror? Because what's ahead of you is more important than what's behind"
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