Contracts - Collective Bargaining Agreements
 

I would like to request a copy of SkyWest contract. Thank you.

Skywest doesn't have a contract

Done .

What? :confused:

...work rules agreement or equivalent.

...SkyWest work rules agreement or equivalent.

Good luck with that. These guys are tight with that information.

Who are you and why do you want this information?

Senior Horizon Air pilot; interest in pilot representation organization, workgroup and management relations, construction of work agreements and labor contracts, regional pilot compensation levels.

Its like asking a Mormon where to buy magic underpants. Pretty tight lippdled unless you have a members card.

Why, because its abysmal and embarrassing?

Only if you refuse to partake in the Kool-Aid.

I don't get it. If you do the math one can see that Skywest pay and work rules are behind what their union counterparts are. 2% dues and you'd still be money ahead. Why the strong anti sentiment against them? A comparison of the Skywest of even a few years ago to present shows a trend. And now locked into a near industry low pay scale for 5 years? What gives?

Several reasons.

The UT demographic is not big on unions in general, for better or worse.

At least 1/3 of the pilots came from union regionals and are permanently scarred. If their last regional sucked, or was a dead-end, even if it's not the union's fault that still leaves a bad taste in your mouth (someone taking your money but not fixing the problem).

The west coast surfer demographic is not big on unions either. While not as vehement as the UT boyz, the west coast guys did not grow up in the union-heavy societies of the mid-west and eastern seaboard where everybody's dad was either in the union, the mob, or both. It's alien to them.

Frankly SKW never really needed a union in the past. QOL deterioration may be changing that. The company has apparently decided to run lean as SOP.

I appreciate your well thought out answer. It still leaves me shaking my head though. Money is money. And it almost seems like the peverbial cut your nose off to spite your face? At some point, unless you're a lifer you'll pay dues at a major. And yes I know ALPA at the major level is not the same. But a 5% net gain, just for a number can add up to a lot.

Realy alpa would have to get us a 8+% raise to realy make it worth while. But reality is they may get us 2% raise. But we then pay them 1.95%. Unless they guarantee us Endeavor pay scales in under 6 months. I doubt they will get voted in... Everyone knows how long it will tak to get a contract... just look at some of the past negotiations..

What a bunch of bull****.... I can't believe how I continue to read this ****.. Day after day, no matter my location in the world, I turn on the APC TV to view what's going on with a bunch of mediocre/*****y pilots... I could give two ****s less about how socially inept you are, but here I am, reading your bull****.. I guess at the end of the day, I'm just a big ****ing looser..

Its been the same for 20 years.. (well flightinfo.com before here). Nothing will change...

A little early to be this sauced isn’t it?

Why would we have to get an 8+% raise to make it worthwhile? If they cost us 1.95% and get us 2% isn't that better than we have now?

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with no

*burp


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It comes down to this. The QOL at SkyWest is far better than at pretty much any other regional. Most people here are happy. Yes, we have our problems, so does everyone. The worst dumpster fires in the industry have unions, therefor, the notion that having a union will solve our problems is clearly absurd. If I have a problem, I can call my Chief and sort it out. I don't need to go through the Union, file a greivance and wait months or years to get an answer.

You have a legally binding contract? Great! When the company violates the contract you have a legal basis for a lengthy lawsuit that you still may not win. Most of the time we are able to work things out informally, though certainly not always.

As for pay? When you compare W2s at the end of the year we make more than most. It has been suggested that to come up with an apples to apples basis for comparison of pay, divide gross earnings by total block. For me, year 18, that works out to over $206/ hr. My pay rate is $115. Now do you see how simply comparing rates is meaningless?

That's not drinking Kool Aid, that's sipping Bourbon.

Actually, that's smoking some good drugs.


Do you think you're not working unless you're blocking?


By that metric, I imagine I have colleagues with pay rates in excess of $1,500 per block hour or more. If that's how you need to slice it to make yourself feel good, dream away. Delusions are free.






.

It's actually 1.9% and it's tax deductible. So your effective dues rate may be lower. But more importantly, a union is more than just a contract. Those dues monies do a lot more than get you a contract.

Inc, who is the only one responsible for that, is doing a great job at that already. Try again.

I love how you fail to include your LCA override. You should join SAPA. Your math skills would be appreciated.

The QOL at regionals varies greatly depending on upgrade times. So Skywest isn't the only one with good QOL. But pilots cannot control that. The only thing they can control, if they have a union, is any QOL items they negotiate. So when upgrade times are not less than 3 years, you can still have some QOL.

Next, the notion that since worst places ha e unions, therefore unions are bad is just faulty logic. I don't need to go any further to explain logic. And like I've said before, a pilot union is so much more than just a contract.

Next, it's great you can call your Cheif pilot and get things fixed or straightened out to your liking. Guess what? That is also required at a union airline. It's called self-help. The difference being that when your Cheif pilot, or scheduling supervisor, or payroll analyst, etc, disagree with you, the union pilot with his legally binding contract has another avenue to deal with it. Many many items in MOUs, LOAs, letters, etc come from settlements that come from these grievances. Most of them are settled on an individual basis which would have never happened without having that avenue that management is required to comply with. In my personal experience and from taking to others, personal grievances take a few weeks. When it's something systemic that affects the pilot group as a whole, it takes months. And that's when the contract is amended. Which brings up my last point on this, you may get your issue resolved individually but if it's a systemic problem, others will have to deal with that issue as well instead of it getting fixed for everyone.

Next, the legally binding contract is not a basis for lawsuits. The contract has a dispute resolution section. You go through the internal process that gets escalated through the three steps. And if there isn't a settlement, the issue is arbitrated by a neutral third party. That is very rare depending on how hostile your management is and yours isn't. In my experience, there's one arbitration about every two years, that includes 7 years under Inc management. So when you say you don't always work things out, when you have a contract, you get another choice.

Lastly, you may feel that your effective pay rate is impressive, but it's not. If it doesn't get close to double of your pay rate, it's not that good. For example, last year, mine was $179 whereas my rate was about $87. This is for half at 11 year pay and half at 12 year pay.

Umm, how about working to create KCM which Skywest gets to enjoy? Or how about working to keep foreign carriers from doing domestic routes? These are just two things that dues money works for at the national level which Skywest pilots feel they're too good to contribute

MOD INPUT: No insults or flamebait allowed. We're already on thin ice with a union thread started by a non-SKW pilot in the SKW forum.

Keep civil or it's getting closed. Thanks.

Which SKW pilots? The ones who voted yes in 2006? The ones who came from alpa carriers?

Why hasn't there been a drive in 10+ years? I know there are people interested...

Maybe people interested on this forum board... but even that guys pushing the 2006 petition are not even interested anymore... i never hear a peep about alpa when im out flying from anyone...

Point of fact, I believe the last vote was November 6, 2007. Not quite 10 years.


Why not since then?


I spent a lot of time back then talking to pilots in SLC. My MEC Chairman and I, invited to visit the crew room by a SkyWest pilot, were asked to leave by a management stooge because "St. George was watching, and didn't like us being there."

How did you help that organizing drive?

It's a unique culture. It reminds me of another "culture" typically associated with Utah.






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That crew room is in a secure area. Whatever their motives, they are within their rights to ban non-employees. Labor organization rights do not grant carte blanche to non-employees. There were OAL alpa reps at a variety of functions in SLC, BBQ's, etc. No lack of opportunity to talk to them.

On probation & commuting to reserve, and doing a lot of OCONUS military duty. While I voted yes, I do not have a religious affinity for alpa so what little time off I had I spent with my family. No regrets there.

Trying to guilt-trip people about support/participation/dues is counter-productive

Not my point, and we gladly complied with the request. My point was, even in the crew room in SLC, "St. George is watching."






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Yeah, the 65% of the 2500 pilots you had back then that didn't vote.;). There is probably only a small percentage of pilots on the seniority list now above the 11/07 date that voted yes at this point. But nothing stops current pilots from organizing.

It has already begun.

Don't mislead people (why am I surprised)... in 2007 a ballot not cast was a no vote. That rule had since changed but back then most non voters were intentional no voters.