Skywest as first regional choice
 

Hello,

I hope to get some candid feedback from some Skywest pilots. I am in my commercial flight training and would consider Skywest as my first choice of regionals. I live in SLC and would like to stay here and base here. I would also consider a base of Boise as i have a place to stay there too.

A few questions, how is life at Skywest for a new hire? How long would a new pilot be on reserve typically? Are Salt lake and Boise likely starting bases for new hire FOs?

And finally, what is a realistic annual income for a FO, the first two years? From my research it seems a lot of the other regionals are more generous in pay or bonuses....and i wonder if that is keeping some people from coming to Skywest.

Thanks for your comments.

Go here and click on the seniority tab. That’s Will answer your time frame and where questions. http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airli...#/career-guide

Boise is relatively junior but it’s not likely you’ll get it in my opinion. You have a lot of FOs in ORD that want westbound.. a lot in front of you. What other airlines are options for you for commuting out of SLC? You’ll be commuting If you want to stay.

You are probably close to two years from getting your time to come to the regionals. Maybe more, maybe less. A lot will change in that time. Focus on training and getting your time. By the time you are close to interviewing, take another look. The regionals will look different. Right now, SkyWest is a good place to be. When I got hired, pay was $24 an hour and that was on par with everyone else. Then pay went up to $30, then $36.50, all in my first year. In my first three years, they closed the SBP domicile, and they opened DTW, BOI, SAN, ATL, LGA.

Anyhow, pay can vary wildly. I was talking with a friend from new hire class and we had a $20,000 difference in gross pay (second year), mainly because he didn't work as hard/work the system as much as me. Pay can vary wildly depending on reserve or lineholder, domicile, equipment, and how much you pick up trips and trade, etc.

First two years combined, you could make as low as $60,000 gross or as much as $110,000 at current rates.

As Zondracer said, things will be different in two or three years. Hopefully you can avoid the dog and pony show regionals altogether and go to somewhere like spirit, JetBlue or even southwest right off the get go on your way to a major. But depending on how bad the next recession is and how many wars we start, it will be a different landscape.

What? Why would you get a newbie’s hopes up like that? This is so incredibly unrealistic.

Southwest yes unrealistic. Any of the LCC’s very possible in a few years. Considering I doubt regionals hardly exist in 3 years.

I would say ULCC's may well be hiring CFI's in three years. That will be the end of any regional which does not have a very solid flow program.

I agree, if you are still under 250 hours, there will be a lot of changes in the industry before you're eligible for an ATP.

SLC is OO's most senior base easily. If I had to predict anything 3 years out, it's that SLC will still be very senior. Pretty sure we're the only show in town there, and lots of folks here want to be there. Some new FOs volunteer to be ground school instructors on the CRJ to get there fast, so that's a possibility for you. You give up most of your flying/career progression though.

BOI isn't too long of a wait on the ERJ side right now, but it's anyone's guess what that'll be like in 2+ years. You'll have to wait and see.

I'm not sure how senior SLC is for Delta, but if I were you, I'd reconcile myself to commuting for 10+ years if you want to live in SLC and move past FO at SkyWest. FO pay right now is mid 30s. As someone else said, if you are willing to give up a lot of your days off and try to work the system, you can make a bit more. Of course, in 2 years, pay throughout the regional industry is likely to be very different than it is today.

Regionals will still exist in 3 years.

I bet there’s less then half the amount we currently have.

I don't disagree with that statement.

Don’t agree? How do you figure regionals maintain staffing once the big time retirements start at the majors?

Age 67, rolling back the 1500 hour requirement, bringing in Australian or European pilots (OO already does that with aussies). One way or another I can see a few more attempts to kick the can down the road. Don’t forget about the next recession right around the corner, that will help keep the regionals afloat I’m sure

I know i have seen the forecast somewhere, but when are the biggest numbers of retiring pilots hitting? Can someone refresh my memory??

Varies by airline but overall peaks about four or five years from now IIRC. But it will be above historical averages from now until sometime after 2030.

United peaks around 2021-2022 the last retirement forecast I saw.

For Delta it’s 2022 and for American 2023. But both will be having retirements at a higher rate than they currently are through 2030, Delta through 2035.

Is the hiring going to slow down in those peak years ? In other words, are they hiring TODAY to plan for the future, or are they hiring TODAY because they need bodies TODAY/NOW.

They’re hiring now for current retirements and some growth.

They are not going to freeze-dry these guys. They are hiring now because of retirements but also because of an increase in seat miles being flown and aircraft on order. Predictions are always written in smoke, but Boeing is predicting a need for 117,000 additional airline pilots in North America alone between now and 2035, a number that would overwhelm the number of pilots currently working in ALL regionals as well as current military training numbers:

Boeing Global Services Forecasts 1.2 Million Pilots and Technicians Needed by 2036 - Jul 24, 2017

Will any of this really happen or will it be derailed by a recession/depression/war/famine/terrorist attack/catastrophic meteor strike extinction event? Who knows.

But the trend is your friend to a degree not seen since the immediate post WWII era. that's about all anyone can say. There really are NEVER any guarantees....

That number from Boeing is silly.

Could be. But United saw an increase of four percent year over year:

United Reports July 2017 Operational Performance - Aug 8, 2017

If US airlines simply increase passenger miles by 4% per year from now until 2035, assuming the average aircraft size gets no bigger, that would translate into a doubling of the need for pilots in the legacy majors from the number currently employed, and the United CEO is saying they are going to increase their year over year growth by 6% although that admittedly needs to be seen. Since the A380 and passenger 747-8 experience of huge passenger haulers doesn't seem to be doing real well, I'm guessing that increases in passengers per aircraft are going to be modest. In fact, if the E-jet E2s become the low end aircraft at the majors flown by major crews, the average might even come down, at least domestically.

On the LCC side, Jet Blue is expecting 6.5-8% year over year growth, while Spirit is currently looking at 14.8% year over year growth in passenger miles. While it is doubtful these numbers are sustainable over the long haul, even if they were only 2% that would still create a demand for pilots several times greater than all the pilots currently in the regional fleets even if all military fixed wing pilots trained in that period left the service as soon as their training-related active duty service commitment was up.

So yeah, Boeing may be exaggerating, they sell aircraft for a living after all, and no one can predict economic downturns or disasters, but it would be difficult to deny that the environment for pilot progression from the regionals to the majors isn't as bright as its been in our lifetimes. You don't have to be a Pollyanna to have a hopeful outlook.

Why do you believe the number is silly? I guess if you consider positive economic growth, both domestically and internationally, population growth, expansion of travel, airports and airline fleets....then why is the number silly?

And i get that Boeing may have somewhat of a conflict of interest, but i assume that with pending heavy retirements and travel boom and growth of airlines worldwide, i can see how there is a growing pilot shortage. Furthermore, the 1,500 rule and cost of training has impeded a lot of pilots looking at the career. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some rule change of the 1,500 hours and even sweeter financial offers from airline operators as the squeeze gets tighter.

Um....math? 117,000 pilots over the next 17 years is 6882 pilots EVERY YEAR for 17 years straight. That’s the entire regional force replaced every 2 years. Scratching your head yet?

I don't believe it's that simple. I'm just asking questions here; currently I wonder what the total number of active pilots is in North America.... Which should include all Aviation, majors, regional, cargo, commuter, corporate, etc. because if there are 50,000 active and employed pilots currently, adding another 6 to 7, 000 per year is not entirely radical. If anyone knows the actual numbers please share. I went to the Boeing article but didn't see current pilot figures.

I don't know how many will be needed per year but when you think of just more than just retirements and factor in growth, it seems feasible the number could be in the 6K range per year. Great Lakes just closed their doors, and solely attributed it to the lack of pilots, this would have been unheard of 7 to 10 years ago. (hoping all you great lakers quickly land on your feet)

But for today the regionals are going to have to up their game just to stay in business. Right now SkyWest is so behind the curve, i just don't know if the recovery can happen. This could be start of demise. A new pilot came up to me today just to say goodbye, said Friday was his last day. Of course I asked him where he was going, expecting to hear Delta, SouthWest, etc. He said he was going back to developing some type of software, getting out of aviation, but maybe not forever? But at least for the next few years. Said the new change in reserve rules was too much to handle, the terrible pay and zero QOL were not worth it to be at SkyWest. He asked if I knew so and so, I did, and he said that guy was leaving for the same reason.

The reserve rules changed recently at SkyWest, that basically took what is an absolutely terrible QOL and and made it far worse. A new idea for reserve notification was approved and the company saw the grand canyon size loop hole in the wording and jumped on it to the complete and sole benefit of the company. The company is doing nothing, they love it.

I just can't believe people still apply here?

I just went into the airline profiles on APC and grabbed the pilot numbers for all the US majors, Legacy, Regionals and the larger Cargo operators.

Total number of pilots just from those groups is 91,572. And, that is leaving out fractionals, charters and many other aviation providers. So the Boeing projections of 6,877 per year is likely an accurate forecast. I would tend to believe that Boeing put a lot of detailed research and computing to arrive at their numbers, rather than just shooting from the hip.

Well this is demoralizing to hear. This type of information has fueled my concern of whether or not to move forward in flight training. I consider aviation to be a highly skilled career and yet new entry pilots, after investing so much are given poor QOL and very low pay. Unless this changes and airlines start treating their aviation professionals like professionals, i think plenty of viable candidates are staying away and pursuing other careers. I am still on the fence. I guess i am crossing my fingers that these companies will step up and pay living wages to their professional pilots. Even on day 1. I know my wish will likely not come true.

According to the age study put together by Delta a couple years back there were ~86,000 pilots between the Major/Cargo/Regional carriers in North America. of those 57,258 will reach mandatory retirement in the next 20 years. So outside of the retirements Boeing is predicting an expansion of 60,000 pilots. That's more than DL/UA/AA/WN employ today combined. Is it possible? Sure, certainly the industry has plans to grow. But that scale sounds more like what Boeing wants to happen than a solid forecast of what will happen.

Pretty sure those numbers being thrown out by boeing is WORLDWIDE. Which if thats the case the 60,000 isn't that far fetched for growth. Airline growth in asia and the middle east is going insane right now.

Stay away from Skywest. Go to an airline with a flow through. Why would you come to a regional that ranks as number 13 in-terms of pay. KSLC is our most senior domicile. You will commute anyways. Go to endeavor get 30% more pay and a Delta interview. Or compass and commute to lax. Go to MESA and get a united interview for god’s sake. Whatever you do. Don’t come here. This is not a good company no more.


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The Boeing forecast was 117,000 pilots over the next 20 years just for North America. The forecast worldwide was over 630,000 with the largest forecast for Asia/Pacific at 253,000 for the same 20 year period.

And whilst there might be an element of wishful thinking in that, Boeing selling airplanes for a living after all, it actually doesn't appear ALL THAT off the wall either, when you look at the effect even fairly minor QOL work rule changes can bring to staffing requirements. There is an interesting discussion going on over at the United thread:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/u...ml#post2554215

Concerning how offsetting the increasing utilization from 52.2 to 54.4 block hours per month year to year would require an additional 513 pilots to be hired, just for United.

It isn't just more money per flying hour that changes going from the regionals to the majors, it's that there are a lot more hours for pay per block hour compared to the regionals. And at a certain point, since taxes are eating up your pay increases anyway, a lot of the negotiating clout goes into QOL stuff.

I looked at the United contract and there is damn near three pages of verbiage on what seat (first class, business class, etc.), United pilots will be booked for on deadheads, sorted out by length of deadhead, foreign or domestic, company aircraft, competitor, etc., same for hotels, flying credit for going through customs, and damn near every other facet of their QOL.

It's a hell of lot more difficult for the legacies to say that recruiting and training have suddenly gone FUBAR, so everybody needs to fly 80 hours of block time this month, contract be damned.

I wish I only had 80 hours of block each month..

Yeah,well the United pilots are talking about how short the manning is when their block times go from a 52 monthly average all the way up to 54. It ain't just a different world, it's a different universe.

What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?

Did you accidentally leave your phone in airplane mode?

Less than 48 hours.

If you fully qualify take the distance between your computer and the computer of Skywest's HR computer and multiply it by two. Then divide it by the speed of light to figure out your wait time.