Transition, as in you went through with the change, like you use a different bathroom now?

What airline dispatched you to land 3000 lbs overweight?

If they have a little airplanes room, I use it. Otherwise I offload my waste on the ramp like all of the other planes.

Sorry, I should have specified: It's the one I work for.

Definitely noticed a decline in systems knowledge with some new hires around 2017. Basic stuff like not knowing limitations, etc. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to get rid of the EP&L test.

They did what??? YHGTBSM...

That was about ten pages of what you most need to know... was too hard for the noobs??? :eek:

That was such a complete waste of time though. I always brain dumped that stuff within a week. Definitely need to know where to find that info, but memorizing it is silly.

I have copies of all the systems tests for the last 10 years. They basically have gone from some difficult questions at a basic Commercial pilot written test level to about 4th grade/Dr. Seuss level. EP&l test failures were hindering all the training going forward and thus omitted.

It's the tide of change......

As long as they know where to find the toner for the ACARS printer it's all good.

There is toner on your ACARS printer?

No .........

But there are legendary MX write-ups re missing toner.

I actually would review the EP&Ls weekly while driving to work. Got to the point where I could do that without even looking at the printout. Takes about five minutes.

There are a few things (V1 cut profile, memory items) that you really should know cold on every flight. If you don't you'll probably be able to muddle your way through it, but events like that often get closely scrutinized... you don't want to get invited back for early sim after an event like that. I've used the memory items in anger four times, at my major interview those were good stories... as opposed to explanations about remedial sim training.

I think the guys in RNO nailed it perfectly... and still didn't have much margin. Wsan't there one in ASE as well?

There have been some balked landings at ASE, but no engine failures (yet). We did have a crew takeoff from ASE, land in DEN, and experience a big engine fire during landing. That lead to an evacuation, and they all did a great job (the CA is at SWA now).

My airline, per Boeing, got rid of all memory items, and we never really had profiles, like I learned when I trained at a regional.

We get it.

Presumably replaced with a QRC.

Memory items, QRC... six of one, half dozen of the other.

10 year military helo guy here moving to KC-135s after I leave Active Duty at the end of the year. I've heard of the occasional helo guy struggling in KC-135 training, though I don't know of the specifics (If I had to guess, it'd be adjusting to the speed at which things happen, not systems). How have your ex-military rotary classmates done with the SkyWest training?

I have an engineering undergrad so I tend to overthink stuff, but some of the posts in this thread seem like red flags that might steer somebody away from SkyWest while other posts make it sound like great training. I get it, it's the internet, but what's the ground truth? I am very much unaware of what airline training is like and obviously everybody is coming from a different background, but reading the back-and-forth here makes it hard for an outsider to get an idea of how it really is. Is there a general consensus as to what's causing guys to not make it? [MENTION=52685]PhotoFlyer[/MENTION] what's your flying background?

Study what they tell you to study...
 

That easy. Coming from a CFII background, I stressed myself out trying to learn everything and the reasoning why. The FMS pilot guide is 800+ PDF pages alone, the AOM volume 1 & 2 is over 2400+ PDF pages. The point I’m trying to make is, there is a crap ton of information and there is no way you can cover it all in two weeks of systems class, not even bringing up flows/procedures you cover too. Study, work with others in class(group study turns into BS sessions and very little gets done), ask questions and for help if needed. SKW wants you to succeed.
*edited to add my experience was on the ERJ. CRJ mileage may vary

Hellow Aviator2019,

Let me answer your question about if anyone had issues in training, yes. We all had them, but if you don’t put the time and effort, it will show.


You are describing the wrong SkyWest, or at least it’s not what the SkyWest I know. ERJ side.
SkyWest told us that we need to study in groups, so we did that. We were also 7, and 1 of them did not pass all the exams, but he never quit. Always asked for help, he was corporate guy, cool guy but too nervous, first time on the 121 gigs. I have been to this dance before, so it was not my first time, but on other regionals, I did see people get fired in training for not performing. I thought this guy was going to be like that, I thought he was going to get fired, but he never did. SkyWest gave him a lot of opportunities more than three strikes. So, it was my first time seen that in training, I was blown away about that, could not believe that a company will help you get additional training — my respects to this company SKYWEST.

Later on, I saw other 3 guys struggling, in training. The company gave them additional help, now there now doing excellent flying everywhere in the system.

My sim partner was an eight-year FO on the CRJ; he taught me how SKYWEST does it, so we practice flows, limitations, etc. After class every day. Of course, after class and happy hour for about 3 hours or more. So, plan of not sleeping your regular 8-10hours or so, more like 4 or maybe 5, at the end you will enjoy the hard work you put into the program. When I was in the sim, I felt I was behind, but the instructor told us that we were doing just fine, ahead of the game, he stated that he could see who has been studying or not.

Not sure what are you talking about ground school training department running on fear? Are you serious? That never happened to our class; it was the other way around. It was open door policy in training.


SLC on the CRJ side uh, well, I can tell you that my sim partner mentions horror stories about the CRJ program, way back ten years ago, he stated that culture had changed so much, for the better. And we both saw the other guys struggling, and he also said that if that was ten years ago, and the guys struggling would have been fired a long time ago, so we both very surprised about what SkyWest can help you on your training, but you need to speak up.

So far SkyWest has been way better training experience than the other regionals like I said before, it was not my first dance on 121. If you need help, they will help you, if you don’t ask for it, it could be too late.

Good luck with your training.

^ya. 10 years ago (pre-175) was “build the aircraft”. Now the CRJ side has adopted the ERJ Training model... definitely not the “up or out” days anymore.... but don’t ever study alone! Thats the first sign of failure...

I don't know what contract you're looking at because when I was doing initial at Republic last summer I sure has hell had 10PM-2AM sims. In fact, most of my sims were at that time. Wound up with a wicked sleep deficit on top of generally not being able to think during those zombie sessions and ultimately failed the checkride...twice. Terminated.

Went to C5 who had me report at 8AM (for 10AM-2PM sessions) for a bulk of our sims and my experience was literally and figuratively like night and day. Funny thing is we had to fly at 4AM a couple of times and I didn't say a word...but my otherwise awesome sim partner kept forgetting callouts those mornings and during the break he looks over at me with this confused look on his face and says "man, I just feel off...I can't think". Yea, that's because his brain was still asleep at that hour like mine was at Republic.

Friends don't let friends do late night sim sessions. It's a recipe for failure, even if you bring talent to the table, study like mad and do everything asked. I'm living proof. Don't let any airline train you to failure because like the old song says "this will go down on your permanent record".

Question- When you have late night sims, are you in class before hand or once you are in sims, ground is over? In other words when you have sims from 10pm-2am, what are you doing the rest of the day? Group study? Ground?

Group study is over, just you and your sim partner.
Sleep in till 9 or so, get up grab breakfest before it closes, go for a run/workout (do flow/callouts in your head). Afternoon time is for self study, practice flows/callouts and meet-up with sim partner to study and go over the next sessions material.

Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.

I practice flows/callouts with a partner but that’s it. Group systems study just tends to devolve into 5 hours of dicking around and maybe an hour of real content.

Agreed. It’s a silly statement that’s not applicable to everyone. As always, one must do what works best for their learning style. Working in groups is actually counter-productive for people like me.

I’ve made it through training at charter, corporate, regional (Brasília/CRJ/175 FO and CA at SKW), and major airline programs with a perfect checkride record, and never once studied in groups.

I have stated on other posts and I’ll say it again: practicing your flows, callouts, and checklists with your sim partner is absolutely essential though. Not doing that will definitely set you up for failure. Also, someone posted about compromising sleep for studying - terrible advice. Getting your 7-8 hours of sleep is essential for productive learning.

Agreed. Group study usually turns into a BS session. 4 training events at SKW I've studied alone and never struggled.

Me too, but it's probably necessary for some people. Each to his own.

Your brain is asleep only because you're trying to keep a normal circadian rhythm.
When I have the graveyard shift, a few days prior I start adjusting my sleep rhythm, so I wake up at around 4PM those days and go to bed at 5AM.
Gives me plenty of sleep, and I won't hit my circadian low in the sim.
Does it suck? Heck yea it does. But is it doable? Yes it is.

Which was the point I was trying to make. If studying alone is a sign of failure I guess I didn't get the memo. I absolutely work on flows/callouts with my sim partner but rarely engage in group study. Sometimes I'll join the group for a little camaraderie, but rarely get anything out of the sessions. AMCND loves talking in absolutes.

Eh, one guy in my class was not given a fair shake at ALL. He got sick in the middle of sim to the point where he spent a couple days in the hospital, then when he came back it was apparent that his previous instructor had not followed the training syllabus. He wasn’t recommended for the PV and the company told him he’d have to roll back to the next class to get additional sim time—and he would have to repeat ground school with them. He passed on that generous offer and at my suggestion called Mesa, where he did fine.

How do you figure he was treated unfairly? Maybe they figured he wasn't ready for the PV before he got sick. Instead of having him pick up where he left off, possibly flunk the PV, then struggle through the rest of sim, they suggested he start fresh with the next class. Big deal...so he started over with a clean record and greater chance for success.

The problem is not with training singling out certain people for failure. The problem is that a few pilots come through time to time completely naive and unprepared for sim training. Many times it's due to lack of experience, knowledge, or plain skill. When they wash out of their first training program, they usually succeed at the next one because they're already mentally prepared and know what to expect. In other words, the first company ends up being practice for the second company.

Sounds like a fair shake to me... plenty of extra time (paid too) to get his program together and things right that maybe he did wrong the first time around. As opposed to trying to bandaid a hot mess and force it through the system.

In the old days many folks (at many airlines) who were dropped for struggling in sim would have killed for an opportunity like that.

That dude cut off his nose to spite his face... now he can enjoy mesa for years to come :rolleyes:

Mil Helo guys have a hard time with 2 things when going to FW jet:
1. speed/staying ahead of the aircraft
2. energy management

airline training is like this:

take a 3+ month air force initial course, and jam it into 6 weeks.

Something about this doesn’t sound right. Why would he have to redo ground school if he already passed the SV? Also, you take the PV before you ever go into the sim so why would he need additional sim sessions if he was never recommended for the PV?

Exactly. Every training issue story i hear, Is not completely factual..

I agree sounds like he got a good deal out of his situation

These are the types of situations that Training Review Boards are made for. A committee of people from both sides (management and union) look at the facts of the situation in concert with the trainee and come up with a plan that all agree on, not forced upon the trainee as a take it or leave it deal.

Union? I thought this was a SkyWest thread... ;)