Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 3592638)

Yup, and the imbalance is the same as it was before the forced upgrades began. So what has this disaster of a policy achieved? Let's see... Ah yes. Precisely nothing, aside from encourage more people to update their apps.

Originally Posted by Utah (Post 3592632)

We also now have fewer Captains than we did when the forced upgrades started last October.

Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 3592638)

Yup, and the imbalance is the same as it was before the forced upgrades began. So what has this disaster of a policy achieved? Let's see... Ah yes. Precisely nothing, aside from encourage more people to update their apps.

Originally Posted by Round Luggage (Post 3592658)

Quit, go on show them.

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3592618)

If the FOs woukdn’t upgrade they were part of the problem. They were sucking up the limited SIC hours available to keep others who WERE willing to upgrade from accumulating the 1000 hours of SIC necessary to upgrade.



Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.



1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.




It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.


Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.




If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.

Originally Posted by Amg4me (Post 3592892)

My point is instead of mandating something many FOs don't seem to want is to figure out why they don't want it and offer incentives to make them want it. Given there is a substantial pay increase, the money does not seem to be cure. But you first have to figure out what the issues with upgrading are and then how to correct that. It will not be the same for everyone and that is why you may have to offer different alternatives. The point on training is I know the training is paid. But it seems there are some folks that are concerned about the training fearing reported failure. If that is the truly the case for many, those expressing this as a reason for not upgrading could opt to receive additional training to increase their confidence for success. It is a complex problem which requires a complex solution, but for those that are longtime FOs (i.e., for some reason don't like change), if you can successfully get them to upgrade, do they become longtime CAs? Which helps alleviate the problem in the long run.

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3592618)

If the FOs woukdn’t upgrade they were part of the problem. They were sucking up the limited SIC hours available to keep others who WERE willing to upgrade from accumulating the 1000 hours of SIC necessary to upgrade.



Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.



1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.




It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.


Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.




If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.

Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3593030)

Exactly. There’s no shortage of FOs. If a forced upgrade quits its no loss.

Originally Posted by AlikesitR (Post 3593349)

I left to a Sunnier destination over forced upgrades. I didn’t want to commute to reserve when my wife and I want to have kids in the next year or two. I was looking forward to upgrade at Skywest, but they forced my hand on it.

Does it help my base was shrinking and that Delta wants to kill the CRJ in a similar way that I want to kill the spider in my basement? No. There were external factors outside of the control at Skywest at play.

But I do know now that Skywest is seeing attrition of very junior FOs too because they aren’t flying. I spoke with a man a week ago who was in for an interview and he’d flown 2 hours in the last month on reserve. Shocker. People want to fly.