SkyWest acquires 25% of Contour ownership
02-10-2024, 09:32 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Utah
Someone's telling you that you'll get a SkyWest seniority number without actually working at SkyWest?
02-11-2024, 02:21 AM
#22
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Ravenwing
I wouldn't sign a contract like that. I think hiring has slowed down a little bit but it hasn't stopped, and if you aren't a cadet, you may need more than 1500 hours right now to get an interview. Have a little patience.
Originally Posted by Turbosina
My God. I did 10 years at Skywest and even though I have nothing truly bad to say about the company, I'd advise you to run, not walk, away from this deal. Don't lock yourself into many years at contour and then SW. Just don't.
Originally Posted by FLAPvsFLAPS
Most likely the "seniority" term used here is the same seniority that cadets get...once they're in the program, employee number is assigned, and date of hire activates for 401k, travel benefits, seniority in-class to bid for SIM slots, etc. Pilot seniority would be entirely different, and likely is not what they are talking about (whether the author knows it or not).
Originally Posted by Monkeywizz
Alas is hiring at 1500 and will pay for your ATP ride. Any ATSG carrier will take you with 1500 also. ATSG is desperate pilots.
Omni Air:
- Minimum 2,000 hours Total Time with 500 hours Pilot-in-Command
- Minimum 500 hours multi-engine
- An unrestricted ATP with a multi-engine rating, 1500 hours total pilot time (including at least 250 hours multi-engine as a civilian pilot or 1500 total pilot time as a military pilot) OR 2000 hours total pilot time in a fixed wing aircraft, multi-engine and commercial rating with at least 500 hours multi-engine time and an ATP written (completed and passed) within the last 12 months
Thank you all for keeping me on the right track. Looks like a good time to enjoy the QOL (flexibility, freedom, time off) of being a flight instructor, build the multi time, and keep looking elsewhere.
02-11-2024, 12:17 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2023
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by mountainhopper
What do you all think about this?
I just interviewed to be an FO at Contour with 1440 total time, 18 multi, and working as a CFII. Given how slow 121 regionals have been to respond or offer interviews, I was tempted, but the penalties are stiff. Is it a pilot pathway or indentured servitude? I have not read the contract; I am going off of what I was told.
Pilot Pathway to Skywest and United:
Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed: $20,000 bonus
1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest with up to 2 years' seniority as DEC. After IOE at SKW-$20,000 bonus.
400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Penalties for voluntary separation or termination:
$40,000 if you leave before upgrade at Contour
$60,000 if you leave after upgrade at Contour
$75,000 if you leave SKW after starting at SKW (nothing owed to Contour after leaving to SKW)
Skywest, but would much rather get hired as an FO directly without a contract like this. It seems unfathomable to agree to a contract that holds even to your next carrier. Is anyone getting hired as an FO at the regionals right now with 1500 hours?
I just interviewed to be an FO at Contour with 1440 total time, 18 multi, and working as a CFII. Given how slow 121 regionals have been to respond or offer interviews, I was tempted, but the penalties are stiff. Is it a pilot pathway or indentured servitude? I have not read the contract; I am going off of what I was told.
Pilot Pathway to Skywest and United:
Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed: $20,000 bonus
1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest with up to 2 years' seniority as DEC. After IOE at SKW-$20,000 bonus.
400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Penalties for voluntary separation or termination:
$40,000 if you leave before upgrade at Contour
$60,000 if you leave after upgrade at Contour
$75,000 if you leave SKW after starting at SKW (nothing owed to Contour after leaving to SKW)
Skywest, but would much rather get hired as an FO directly without a contract like this. It seems unfathomable to agree to a contract that holds even to your next carrier. Is anyone getting hired as an FO at the regionals right now with 1500 hours?
02-12-2024, 08:16 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,852
Let's look at the reality of the duration each phase of this 'pathway' would realistically take.
• Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed
You're almost at ATP mins, so let's just start the imaginary clock when you hit 1,500. Let's also assume that you start Contour training the month after you get your 1,500 hours.
ATP/CTP + Indoc / ground/ sims will be 2.5 months (assuming no delays). Now you have to build 500 hours. I haven't a clue how much Contour newhires are flying each month, nor do I have a clue how their reserve system works and how long it take to hold a line, but let's use an optimistic assumption of 70 block hrs/month. Say 8 months. So now we're at 10.5 months. Add a couple weeks for cushion = 11 months.
• 1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest
Don't forget upgrade training, which will be a month (ground/ sims) plus a few weeks of Capt IOE (during which time you cannot log TPIC.) Let's say 2 months for Capt training. Now you get to start logging TPIC time. Let's call that 15 months. Add that to your already-accumulated time and now we're at 28 months.
• 400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Skywest training will be 2 months (assuming no delays and that they hire you the same month you flow, which is a huge assumption.) You'll then be on reserve at OO, and depending on where you are, you might fly 10 hours a month or you might fly 90. FOs are sitting right now, and will sit as long as Skywest continues to shrink and CAs continue to leave. Let's assume you get 50 hrs/month so that's 10 minths at Skywest (38 months from when you started.)
Now here's the kicker: *if* you actually get that interview and pass it, then you've gone from CFI to mainline FO in just over 3 years. That would actually be pretty darn decent, and about on par with what young motivated regional guys have been doing recently.
BUT THE BIG CAVEAT is...there is zero guarantee whatsoever that you will pass that interview, not because of your own abilities, but because none of those carriers has any incentive to hire you, and every incentive to keep you at Skywest until you upgrade and grind out 1,600 PIC.
Let's look at how long that would take. We said it would take 38 months to get you from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline interview, right? Now add:
• 10 months to log another 600 hours SIC at Skywest (you need 1,000 hours Pt 121 time to upgrade. Contour is Pt 135 so none of that time will count, as far as I'm aware.)
• 2 months to go to Skywest upgrade training and complete Capt IOE
• Realistically 2 more years (if you work your tail off) to get 1,600 TPIC at Skywest
So now you are looking at six years from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline flow.
And that is IF Skywest and its partners abide by this agreement for the next 6 years. That is an utter eternity in the airline industry.
In the meantime, if you're fortunate enough to get a call elsewhere and you leave the program, you're on the hook for $$$$$$$.
Run. Don't walk.
• Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed
You're almost at ATP mins, so let's just start the imaginary clock when you hit 1,500. Let's also assume that you start Contour training the month after you get your 1,500 hours.
ATP/CTP + Indoc / ground/ sims will be 2.5 months (assuming no delays). Now you have to build 500 hours. I haven't a clue how much Contour newhires are flying each month, nor do I have a clue how their reserve system works and how long it take to hold a line, but let's use an optimistic assumption of 70 block hrs/month. Say 8 months. So now we're at 10.5 months. Add a couple weeks for cushion = 11 months.
• 1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest
Don't forget upgrade training, which will be a month (ground/ sims) plus a few weeks of Capt IOE (during which time you cannot log TPIC.) Let's say 2 months for Capt training. Now you get to start logging TPIC time. Let's call that 15 months. Add that to your already-accumulated time and now we're at 28 months.
• 400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Skywest training will be 2 months (assuming no delays and that they hire you the same month you flow, which is a huge assumption.) You'll then be on reserve at OO, and depending on where you are, you might fly 10 hours a month or you might fly 90. FOs are sitting right now, and will sit as long as Skywest continues to shrink and CAs continue to leave. Let's assume you get 50 hrs/month so that's 10 minths at Skywest (38 months from when you started.)
Now here's the kicker: *if* you actually get that interview and pass it, then you've gone from CFI to mainline FO in just over 3 years. That would actually be pretty darn decent, and about on par with what young motivated regional guys have been doing recently.
BUT THE BIG CAVEAT is...there is zero guarantee whatsoever that you will pass that interview, not because of your own abilities, but because none of those carriers has any incentive to hire you, and every incentive to keep you at Skywest until you upgrade and grind out 1,600 PIC.
Let's look at how long that would take. We said it would take 38 months to get you from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline interview, right? Now add:
• 10 months to log another 600 hours SIC at Skywest (you need 1,000 hours Pt 121 time to upgrade. Contour is Pt 135 so none of that time will count, as far as I'm aware.)
• 2 months to go to Skywest upgrade training and complete Capt IOE
• Realistically 2 more years (if you work your tail off) to get 1,600 TPIC at Skywest
So now you are looking at six years from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline flow.
And that is IF Skywest and its partners abide by this agreement for the next 6 years. That is an utter eternity in the airline industry.
In the meantime, if you're fortunate enough to get a call elsewhere and you leave the program, you're on the hook for $$$$$$$.
Run. Don't walk.
02-13-2024, 03:27 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by Turbosina
And that is IF Skywest and its partners abide by this agreement for the next 6 years. That is an utter eternity in the airline.
Granted, this is all best case scenario. I’d bet dollars to donuts there is nothing in this contract obligating the mainline partners to offer a candidate a job when the time comes. Just a tool to move the financial risk onto the employee.
This program is one giant red flag.
02-13-2024, 04:41 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by Turbosina
Let's look at the reality of the duration each phase of this 'pathway' would realistically take.
• Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed
You're almost at ATP mins, so let's just start the imaginary clock when you hit 1,500. Let's also assume that you start Contour training the month after you get your 1,500 hours.
ATP/CTP + Indoc / ground/ sims will be 2.5 months (assuming no delays). Now you have to build 500 hours. I haven't a clue how much Contour newhires are flying each month, nor do I have a clue how their reserve system works and how long it take to hold a line, but let's use an optimistic assumption of 70 block hrs/month. Say 8 months. So now we're at 10.5 months. Add a couple weeks for cushion = 11 months.
• 1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest
Don't forget upgrade training, which will be a month (ground/ sims) plus a few weeks of Capt IOE (during which time you cannot log TPIC.) Let's say 2 months for Capt training. Now you get to start logging TPIC time. Let's call that 15 months. Add that to your already-accumulated time and now we're at 28 months.
• 400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Skywest training will be 2 months (assuming no delays and that they hire you the same month you flow, which is a huge assumption.) You'll then be on reserve at OO, and depending on where you are, you might fly 10 hours a month or you might fly 90. FOs are sitting right now, and will sit as long as Skywest continues to shrink and CAs continue to leave. Let's assume you get 50 hrs/month so that's 10 minths at Skywest (38 months from when you started.)
Now here's the kicker: *if* you actually get that interview and pass it, then you've gone from CFI to mainline FO in just over 3 years. That would actually be pretty darn decent, and about on par with what young motivated regional guys have been doing recently.
BUT THE BIG CAVEAT is...there is zero guarantee whatsoever that you will pass that interview, not because of your own abilities, but because none of those carriers has any incentive to hire you, and every incentive to keep you at Skywest until you upgrade and grind out 1,600 PIC.
Let's look at how long that would take. We said it would take 38 months to get you from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline interview, right? Now add:
• 10 months to log another 600 hours SIC at Skywest (you need 1,000 hours Pt 121 time to upgrade. Contour is Pt 135 so none of that time will count, as far as I'm aware.)
• 2 months to go to Skywest upgrade training and complete Capt IOE
• Realistically 2 more years (if you work your tail off) to get 1,600 TPIC at Skywest
So now you are looking at six years from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline flow.
And that is IF Skywest and its partners abide by this agreement for the next 6 years. That is an utter eternity in the airline industry.
In the meantime, if you're fortunate enough to get a call elsewhere and you leave the program, you're on the hook for $$$$$$$.
Run. Don't walk.
• Upgrade to Captain once reached ATP mins and 500 in type, assuming systems/managerial knowledge sufficient and one winter season completed
You're almost at ATP mins, so let's just start the imaginary clock when you hit 1,500. Let's also assume that you start Contour training the month after you get your 1,500 hours.
ATP/CTP + Indoc / ground/ sims will be 2.5 months (assuming no delays). Now you have to build 500 hours. I haven't a clue how much Contour newhires are flying each month, nor do I have a clue how their reserve system works and how long it take to hold a line, but let's use an optimistic assumption of 70 block hrs/month. Say 8 months. So now we're at 10.5 months. Add a couple weeks for cushion = 11 months.
• 1000 hours PIC at Contour=flow to SKYwest
Don't forget upgrade training, which will be a month (ground/ sims) plus a few weeks of Capt IOE (during which time you cannot log TPIC.) Let's say 2 months for Capt training. Now you get to start logging TPIC time. Let's call that 15 months. Add that to your already-accumulated time and now we're at 28 months.
• 400 hours in at SKW: guaranteed interview with United (or Delta or Alaska).
After 1600 PIC at SKW: Can flow to United/etc.
Skywest training will be 2 months (assuming no delays and that they hire you the same month you flow, which is a huge assumption.) You'll then be on reserve at OO, and depending on where you are, you might fly 10 hours a month or you might fly 90. FOs are sitting right now, and will sit as long as Skywest continues to shrink and CAs continue to leave. Let's assume you get 50 hrs/month so that's 10 minths at Skywest (38 months from when you started.)
Now here's the kicker: *if* you actually get that interview and pass it, then you've gone from CFI to mainline FO in just over 3 years. That would actually be pretty darn decent, and about on par with what young motivated regional guys have been doing recently.
BUT THE BIG CAVEAT is...there is zero guarantee whatsoever that you will pass that interview, not because of your own abilities, but because none of those carriers has any incentive to hire you, and every incentive to keep you at Skywest until you upgrade and grind out 1,600 PIC.
Let's look at how long that would take. We said it would take 38 months to get you from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline interview, right? Now add:
• 10 months to log another 600 hours SIC at Skywest (you need 1,000 hours Pt 121 time to upgrade. Contour is Pt 135 so none of that time will count, as far as I'm aware.)
• 2 months to go to Skywest upgrade training and complete Capt IOE
• Realistically 2 more years (if you work your tail off) to get 1,600 TPIC at Skywest
So now you are looking at six years from Day 1 at Contour to a mainline flow.
And that is IF Skywest and its partners abide by this agreement for the next 6 years. That is an utter eternity in the airline industry.
In the meantime, if you're fortunate enough to get a call elsewhere and you leave the program, you're on the hook for $$$$$$$.
Run. Don't walk.
Wow 6 years oh no, the worlds ending, put on your tinfoil hats and hide in the basment.. wait your already in the basement!!!
Don’t be in such a rush to get to a mainline job. Enjoy your path. Meet friends and take vacations. That last a life time. Rush rush rush. Just turns you into a robot. And a miserable person… Honestly 6 years is not bad if you did a 30 year look back at the average time to a major…
02-13-2024, 08:44 AM
#30
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,026
Originally Posted by mountainhopper
I am interested in ABX's type of work--I flew with a guy who works there. However, it looks like non-restricted ATP is required there, which is nearly twice the XC time I have. I can still apply, though.
Omni Air:
- Minimum 2,000 hours Total Time with 500 hours Pilot-in-Command
- Minimum 500 hours multi-engine
- An unrestricted ATP with a multi-engine rating, 1500 hours total pilot time (including at least 250 hours multi-engine as a civilian pilot or 1500 total pilot time as a military pilot) OR 2000 hours total pilot time in a fixed wing aircraft, multi-engine and commercial rating with at least 500 hours multi-engine time and an ATP written (completed and passed) within the last 12 months
Think carefully about that grass on the other side of the fence. It may be greener because it's astroturf.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
