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Originally Posted by SMACFUM
(Post 2001301)
Dude, not a single thing you posted has anything to do with the point I was making. Why don't you actually go back and read what I wrote.
1) I never said SAPA was a certified bargaining unit, it's not, we all know that. 2) The contract is not "debatable." It's a signed legal document outlining what the company is obligated to and what the pilots are obligated to. Nothing more, nothing less. The company is legally obligated to follow what's in it. It can't unilaterally change the policy without leaving themselves open to legal liability. 3) Nobody is arguing the "at will" employment arrangement at skywest. We are all at will employees, and I fully admit that changing this dynamic would probably be the single largest advantage to having a certified union on property. However, that does not change the fact, that "at will" employees can still have a contract that spells out the employment terms of pay, work rules, etc. Admittedly, there is a ton of grey area, but the two are not mutually exclusive. 1) SAPA is run by the company for the company. 2)There is no contract. Period, dot, end of sentence. Look up contract in WestLaw. Look up Collective Bargaining Unit. Without a Collective Bargaining Unit, there can be no bargaining. 3)The only people who aren't "at will" have a CBA recognized by the NLRB, anything less, is nothing. Did you even read any of the links I posted? There is no contract at Skywest between the company and the pilots, period, dot, end of sentence. Enjoy the green cheese. There is absolutely o.oo% grey area, no contract recognized by the NLRB by default means "at will" employment. |
Originally Posted by calvenaut
(Post 2001296)
Are you an attorney? While I agree that SAPA is pretty limited by their funding mechanism, Mr. Douglas did indeed win his case in court.
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Originally Posted by NVUS
(Post 2001373)
Anyone else flying ATL/ASE? Not even a hub for SkyWest.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2001409)
JNU is seasonal, always has been. May-Nov
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Originally Posted by SMACFUM
(Post 2001003)
For the love of god, can we please put this notion to rest. SkyWest pilot DO have a CBA contract. Just because it wasn't negotiated by a NLRB/NMB recognized agent, doesn't mean it's not a contract.
What SkyWest pilots have is a legally binding agreement entered into by two parties (see: contract) (The company, and SAPA acting on behalf of the pilot group). If SkyWest management unilaterally acted in a way to violate the current policy "contract", SAPA does have the legal grounds to sue. This has been affirmed many times over in prior case law. Whether or not SAPA would have the will (balls) or financial means to do so is a completely different argument. To quote SkyWest Airlines own chief legal counsel: "(SkyWest Pilots) can(do) have a CBA without being certified under the NMB/RLA. It could be just one person, but SAPA is functioning as an organized entity that could go to court. Every time courts have looked at representative entities with less elaborate documents than our Pilot Policy Manual, they’ve recognized CBAs. Internal and external legal counsel have always recognized that precedent before a court has even ruled on it." http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-a...-overview.aspx "I. The At-Will Presumption Employment relationships are presumed to be “at-will” in all U.S. states except Montana. The U.S. is one of a handful of countries where employment is predominantly at-will. Most countries throughout the world allow employers to dismiss employees only for cause. Some reasons given for our retention of the at-will presumption include respect for freedom of contract, employer deference, and the belief that both employers and employees favor an at-will employment relationship over job security. A. At-Will Defined At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences.At-will also means that an employer can change the terms of the employment relationship with no notice and no consequences. For example, an employer can alter wages, terminate benefits, or reduce paid time off. In its unadulterated form, the U.S. at-will rule leaves employees vulnerable to arbitrary and sudden dismissal, a limited or on-call work schedule depending on the employer’s needs, and unannounced cuts in pay and benefits. B. Modification by Contract The at-will presumption is a default rule that can be modified by contract. For example, a contract may provide for a specific term of employment or allow termination for cause only. Typically, U.S. companies negotiate individual employment agreements only with high-level employees. Collective bargaining agreements usually provide that represented employees may only be terminated for cause.Cause generally includes reasons such as poor employee performance, employee misconduct, or economic necessity. An employment contract may specifically outline the situations or employee actions that would lead to termination for cause." Since, no SKYW pilot has a signed contract, Section "B" does not apply. Since SAPA has not been elected as the pilot representative body, they cannot negotiate a "contract" per the NLRB. Ask Todd for a few case cites, enjoy the crickets. Nice try though. |
Originally Posted by cornbeef007
(Post 2001446)
False, Skywest was slated to do it from SEP-MAY...not anymore
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Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
(Post 2001440)
No, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night. If you read the previous links, its pretty basic stuff.
Either way, you're an idiot for having such a steadfast opinion in the absence of any real expertise or credibility. Then again, I'm just as much of an idiot for expecting anything else from you. Therefore, I say: Flame on, it's great entertainment :D |
Originally Posted by calvenaut
(Post 2001549)
Law is rarely basic, and very often highly nuanced. I'm not an attorney either, so I'm not going to presume to have a definitive answer on the topic -- but it's entirely possible that you're wrong. It's equally possible you're right.
Either way, you're an idiot for having such a steadfast opinion in the absence of any real expertise or credibility. Then again, I'm just as much of an idiot for expecting anything else from you. Therefore, I say: Flame on, it's great entertainment :D |
Originally Posted by calvenaut
(Post 2001549)
Law is rarely basic, and very often highly nuanced. I'm not an attorney either, so I'm not going to presume to have a definitive answer on the topic -- but it's entirely possible that you're wrong. It's equally possible you're right.
Either way, you're an idiot for having such a steadfast opinion in the absence of any real expertise or credibility. Then again, I'm just as much of an idiot for expecting anything else from you. Therefore, I say: Flame on, it's great entertainment :D https://web2.westlaw.com/signon/defa...LW15.07&vr=2.0 |
Well looks like autothrustblue got a new login name.
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