Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 2457358)
The funny thing is, that I only care about summer vacation for about the next 6 years.
After that, I’ll go back to the spring/fall vacations that I’ve always enjoyed in the past. That’s the thing you folks don’t seem to understand. I won’t be junior forever, but I’ll be too junior for summer vacation for most - if not all - of the next six years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 2457358)
The funny thing is, that I only care about summer vacation for about the next 6 years.
You have a far better chance of actually getting a summer week under the current system than you will under either of the choices we're voting on. After that, I’ll go back to the spring/fall vacations that I’ve always enjoyed in the past. That’s the thing you folks don’t seem to understand. I won’t be junior forever, but I’ll be too junior for summer vacation for most - if not all - of the next six years. The current choices are unlikely to make a positive difference for you short term, and will definitely harm you, big time, in the long run. As I said above, you will be far less likely to actually get a summer week with either of the choices we're voting on. |
What you aren’t understanding is that all votes are personal. Pilots with kids at home just want the chance, seniority permitting, to take one lousy week of vacation in the summer.
You aren’t empathizing with them. You aren’t understanding where they are coming from. Your only response is “you’ll be senior someday, then you’ll see.” I’m Sorry. You can’t expect me to vote to preserve this scheme for you when you can’t even acknowledge that a problem exists from my perspective. I’m not doing anything to you. I only have one vote. The other 8998 pilots will ultimately make this decision. I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from, even if we don’t agree on the choices before us. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 2457401)
What you aren’t understanding is that all votes are personal. Pilots with kids at home just want the chance, seniority permitting, to take one lousy week of vacation in the summer.
You aren’t empathizing with them. You aren’t understanding where they are coming from. Your only response is “you’ll be senior someday, then you’ll see.” I’m Sorry. You can’t expect me to vote to preserve this scheme for you when you can’t even acknowledge that a problem exists from my perspective. I’m not doing anything to you. I only have one vote. The other 8998 pilots will ultimately make this decision. I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from, even if we don’t agree on the choices before us. |
I give up. Call your rep. They sent out the choices. All I’m going to do is vote.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
(Post 2456489)
Dude I am all about waiting for the benefits of seniority. Show me another seniority list that weights seniority like we do with vacation bidding and I will cede your point. Hint...there isn’t one because it is ludicrous.
Compare a 7th year FO with 3 weeks of vacation and a 2nd year FO with 2 weeks. 7th year FO gets to bid on his 3rd week after 2nd FO chose both of his. If you think that doesn't violate seniority order, I don't know what to tell you. I get it...senior folks get the best stuff as they should. If you want to compare our vacation system with Line bidding as I have heard many do, it is like 15 percent of the group getting to go in to the pool of trips before everyone else and put together their line with all the awesome trips they want. It just doesn’t work that way. I am for unrestricted vacation trading, but the system we have now hugely benefits cartel players and “good dudes from the unit” and leaves out the guys who just want to bid the weeks they are actually going to use. We had a pure seniority option where everyone could bid their weeks in one go and allow unlimited trading as well. If the change voters actually cared about seniority, then Option 7 (one round - unlimited trading) would have won hands down as that is the option that is literally pure seniority order. But honoring seniority is clearly not the intent of the change voters... hence the pure seniority option getting only 6.25% of the vote. |
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
(Post 2457447)
If change voters get their way? Not one... because the rest of the US airline world goes by seniority, and not by feelings and/or someone's idea of "fairness."
Compare a 7th year FO with 3 weeks of vacation and a 2nd year FO with 2 weeks. 7th year FO gets to bid on his 3rd week after 2nd FO chose both of his. If you think that doesn't violate seniority order, I don't know what to tell you. Sorry man, love your posts, but I don't think you couldn't be any more wrong about this along with all of you option 1 and 3 voters. Your idea of dealing with a headache seems to involve a gun to your head. We had a pure seniority option where everyone could bid their weeks in one go and allow unlimited trading as well. If the change voters actually cared about seniority, then Option 7 (one round - unlimited trading) would have won hands down as that is the option that is literally pure seniority order. But honoring seniority is clearly not the intent of the change voters... hence the pure seniority option getting only 6.25% of the vote. That's kinda why there's 5 rounds. |
Originally Posted by flyguy81
(Post 2457509)
If you weren't bidding a block, the 7 yr guy would be bidding his 3rd week after the 2nd yr guy bids his 2nd and final week. *gasp*
That's kinda why there's 5 rounds. Except a 7th year guy can *choose* to block bid all his weeks in a row as it stands now... something he definitely won’t be able to do if this goes through. |
Whatever man. I voted. I suggest you do too. We disagree on the fundamentals of what seniority gets you. I want to protect seniority too, but not at the expense of the rest of the group. I guess that’s why the union is a democracy and not an oligarchy. You are insinuating that the 50 percent or so that bothered to vote are too stupid to understand what they are doing. I guess we will see.
|
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
(Post 2457532)
Whatever man. I voted. I suggest you do too. We disagree on the fundamentals of what seniority gets you. I want to protect seniority too, but not at the expense of the rest of the group. I guess that’s why the union is a democracy and not an oligarchy. You are insinuating that the 50 percent or so that bothered to vote are too stupid to understand what they are doing. I guess we will see.
I voted too. I don’t think our pilot group is stupid, but I do think that many of us tend to be somewhat myopic and easily persuaded by short term gains while overlooking the long term implications. |
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