The 7th year FO picks his first week before the 3rd year picks his.

The 7th year FO picks his second week before the 3rd year picks his.

The 7th year FO gets a third week to pick. 3rd year does not.

And this breaks seniority how exactly? Because he doesn't get to pick *everything* before the 3rd year FO?

...unless that 3rd year FO took that week.

Earned benefit of seniority.

Just like that. 3rd year FO diluted the 7th year FO's ability to exercise the benefit that comes with seniority.

The fundamental question here is what is seniority and what should it govern? We've already diluted the benefits of seniority here in many ways... what's a few more?

I did, and they got an earful, and not just from me.


Me too.

I am done trying to talk you guys off the ledge.

Go ahead and jump. :eek:

Seniority means first pick. Doesn’t mean you pick everything first.

The only reason people are block bidding instead of using the 5 rounds is because it’s been made into a monopoly. There’s no reason to bid 5 weeks in a row when you can bid the 1st and 3rd week and get a month off. By taking weeks you’ve no intention of using to use as a commodity and trade to people who probably couldn’t hold that week you’re violating the seniority of everyone who was senior enough to bid the week in the first place.

Saying, “that’s seniority” is BS. You’re not honoring seniority. You’re bastardizing it...but as long as you get yours then who cares....amirite? I don’t want to have to play games to get what my seniority level should entitle me to.

So funny... we are arguing over the principles of seniority and what it should and shouldn't entail. Though I agree with you about vacation trading being a problem at times, I think our proposed fixes, Options 1 and 3 are going to be worse. Option 3 seems like the lesser of two evils. I supported Option 7 as it honors the earned benefits of seniority to a T and takes away any excuse for block bidding. Notice it only received 6.25% of the vote? That's why this is nothing more than chipping away further at the seniority system in some quest for 'fairness.'

Ever pick up a reserve block with you keeping a pass preference? If so, ever end up flying while someone way junior to you with the same number of days available ends up staying at home because your 'MTD utilization' on reserve is lower than his despite the fact that you've flown your line up until that point? Can't even apply the logic of spreading flight time evenly to this...

This will be no different as the relevance of one's seniority keeps slowly getting chipped away... I can only hope I'm proven wrong down the road.

Yeah, that needs fixing. At least there was an attempt to inject pilot preference into the reserve callout system, but it needs work still. As it is, it discourages reserve pickup unless it’s the start of the month.

Yup...... And the irony is that in our quest for "fairness", we're all gonna get screwed.

But at least we're all getting screwed "fairly".

Just when I thought this pilot group was starting to smarten up, they go old school and vote to screw themselves again, just like the old days.

You can't make this stuff up.

The amount of shameless greed displayed by some on this thread is utterly mind-blowing.

Slip, I'm sorry that our vacation system is likely to change just as you are on the verge of reaching the Promised Land. :(

Try out this experiment on ten of your best non-airline friends or family: Explain to them how our vacation bidding/awards system works and ask them if that seems fair (i.e. respects seniority). I predict ten of ten would look at you as though you've just grown a second head, and laughingly tell you that is one effed-up way to spread the spoils. Seniority benefits really ought to accrue linearly, not exponentially. The current vacation system does the latter.

I already tried... and they cannot understand how come I am a 737 FO again having been a 737 captain prior to coming here with more time in 737’s than some of the captains I’m flying with. Maybe we should get rid of that little gem too since we’re dismantling seniority....