SWA leaving Newark
07-27-2019, 12:21 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,273
Originally Posted by ROFF
That many people will die this weekend on US roads alone.
07-27-2019, 07:42 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,842
Originally Posted by RustyChain
346 fatalities. You're delusional.
The 787 was grounded for 3 months....and that thing was catching fire.
The Concorde was grounded 16 months and the reason it crashed was due to FOD.
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
How many would have died if the pilots had....followed the checklist? It’s kinda there for a reason.
I’ve flown it....I’d fly it tomorrow. I’d put my family on it tomorrow.
07-27-2019, 08:50 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
07-27-2019, 09:43 PM
#24
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,655
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Air France killed how many with their frozen pitot tubes.....how long was the A330 grounded? Yeah....
The 787 was grounded for 3 months....and that thing was catching fire.
The Concorde was grounded 16 months and the reason it crashed was due to FOD.
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
How many would have died if the pilots had....followed the checklist? It’s kinda there for a reason.
I’ve flown it....I’d fly it tomorrow. I’d put my family on it tomorrow.
The 787 was grounded for 3 months....and that thing was catching fire.
The Concorde was grounded 16 months and the reason it crashed was due to FOD.
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
How many would have died if the pilots had....followed the checklist? It’s kinda there for a reason.
I’ve flown it....I’d fly it tomorrow. I’d put my family on it tomorrow.
07-27-2019, 09:48 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 353
Air France killed how many with their frozen pitot tubes.....how long was the A330 grounded? Yeah....
No equipment fault. Pilots to blame. They couldn't recognize the stall. No other accident like that in this type.
The 787 was grounded for 3 months....and that thing was catching fire.
The battery issue, not an aircraft system, rather a component. Kinda different story.
The Concorde was grounded 16 months and the reason it crashed was due to FOD.
Much more complex than FOD. Would you catch on fire and explode within seconds after running over a piece of junk? Actual speed and the location and reinforcement of the fuel tanks were the issue. That's a serious structural problem. It's part of the reason it was terminated.
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
Many people who know way more than me admit that the only reason we didn't have an accident here in the US was pure luck. They did simulations at the FAA and all the airlines affected, and the percentage of recovery was really low (less than 10%). That's in the sim, mostly LCAs and experienced crews, knowing exactly what's coming, still unable to recover.
How many would have died if the pilots had....followed the checklist? It’s kinda there for a reason.
They followed the checklist, at least the second accident.
I’ve flown it....I’d fly it tomorrow. I’d put my family on it tomorrow.
Yes, we all flew it and it flew well. I liked it and never had a problem. If you put your arogance aside and talk to people who understand and know way more about it than us, the line pilots, you may see it in different light. The fact that you'd put your family on it doesn't prove the MAX is a safe. All it proves is your opinion. Let the people who understand the problem deal with it. Yes, we are all being negatively affected by it. I'd love to see it back on the line tomorrow. Yet, despite dramatic efforts and massive amounts of money and manpower, they are struggling to put it together. The puzzle is complex and it needs time. I don't doubt they'll figure it out and it will be a safe airplane once the process is over.
No equipment fault. Pilots to blame. They couldn't recognize the stall. No other accident like that in this type.
The 787 was grounded for 3 months....and that thing was catching fire.
The battery issue, not an aircraft system, rather a component. Kinda different story.
The Concorde was grounded 16 months and the reason it crashed was due to FOD.
Much more complex than FOD. Would you catch on fire and explode within seconds after running over a piece of junk? Actual speed and the location and reinforcement of the fuel tanks were the issue. That's a serious structural problem. It's part of the reason it was terminated.
Did Boeing mess up with the software? Sure. With thousands of hours of data between SWA, UAL, and AA....no issues were detected.
Many people who know way more than me admit that the only reason we didn't have an accident here in the US was pure luck. They did simulations at the FAA and all the airlines affected, and the percentage of recovery was really low (less than 10%). That's in the sim, mostly LCAs and experienced crews, knowing exactly what's coming, still unable to recover.
How many would have died if the pilots had....followed the checklist? It’s kinda there for a reason.
They followed the checklist, at least the second accident.
I’ve flown it....I’d fly it tomorrow. I’d put my family on it tomorrow.
Yes, we all flew it and it flew well. I liked it and never had a problem. If you put your arogance aside and talk to people who understand and know way more about it than us, the line pilots, you may see it in different light. The fact that you'd put your family on it doesn't prove the MAX is a safe. All it proves is your opinion. Let the people who understand the problem deal with it. Yes, we are all being negatively affected by it. I'd love to see it back on the line tomorrow. Yet, despite dramatic efforts and massive amounts of money and manpower, they are struggling to put it together. The puzzle is complex and it needs time. I don't doubt they'll figure it out and it will be a safe airplane once the process is over.
07-28-2019, 03:37 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Probably more a financial decision than a Max issue. We should have 60 Max planes in operation by Oct. So sure, when nearly 10% of your fleet is parked in a parking lot in a political hit job you have to do what you can to keep the rest of the operation flowing. So mgt prob looked and saw EWR as something they could sacrifice due to poor financial numbers.
Also allows those planes to be redeployed to more lucrative markets like HI, etc.
Also allows those planes to be redeployed to more lucrative markets like HI, etc.
07-28-2019, 05:59 AM
#27
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,935
[QUOTE/]
They followed the checklist, at least the second accident.[/QUOTE]
After attempting to engage the autopilot with a stick shaker going off, retracting flaps with a stick shaker going off, and leaving the thrust levers at 94%? And Never fully trimming out the nose down command when electric trim was still available? Not sure which checklist they “followed”...
They followed the checklist, at least the second accident.[/QUOTE]
After attempting to engage the autopilot with a stick shaker going off, retracting flaps with a stick shaker going off, and leaving the thrust levers at 94%? And Never fully trimming out the nose down command when electric trim was still available? Not sure which checklist they “followed”...
07-28-2019, 01:04 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 514
The major difference between the Max and all other crashes in modern aviation history, is that there were two accidents, due to the same mechanical fault.
The Max didn't have years of operational history, and millions of hours flown, it was a problem with a new system, integral to the design of the aircraft. When you're looking at layers of swiss cheese, two accidents in short succession on a new system, may mean that you only need a few pieces of cheese.
The Max didn't have years of operational history, and millions of hours flown, it was a problem with a new system, integral to the design of the aircraft. When you're looking at layers of swiss cheese, two accidents in short succession on a new system, may mean that you only need a few pieces of cheese.
07-28-2019, 02:32 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,842
Originally Posted by Andy
Are you sure no issues were detected? I’ve never heard one way or other about that - do you have a reference?
As far as Lionair....the problem happened previously. The jumpseater caught it. Why wasn’t the plane grounded immediately? It would have been grounded in the US.
As far as Ethiopian....you have a low time FO with a new CA. They started the checklist and for whatever reason decided to do their own thing whild screaming along at full climb power.
Sure Boeing messed up with the software but you also have to fly the jet.
07-28-2019, 03:30 PM
#30
Got a weekend off once...
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: On "Some Beach"
Posts: 175
Isn’t the port authority re-doing the A Terminals in EWR? Looks like a convenient time to cut a questionably competitive destination that will be doing gate triage over the next 3 years, and Boeing gets the blame.
Those guys ain’t dumb. Back to moving those refrigerators.
Those guys ain’t dumb. Back to moving those refrigerators.
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