That may be, but not nearly as tiring as watching your compatriots give away the store for decades.

One point, since the last contract 20% of the pilot group was hired, many not in their first 121 rodeo.

Hopefully, that'll change things around here, but I will not be holding my breath......

Slip, I've talked about this before here and on Poon. It's on you OG's to provide historical anecdotes so the newbies can form an opinion and vote accordingly. Here's the reality... we are one of the few, if not THE ONLY pilot group that allows probationary pilots to vote in elections or on any TAs or SLs. Good, bad or indifferent, it doesn't matter now... but remember, the newbies are waterboarded with Koolaid in GO, and if all they've got is smartass remarks from the likes of you, in their viewpoints you simply become a bitter old coot to be ignored when in reality, you have a lot to offer and educate if you would change perspective from constant putdowns of this pilot group to actually outlining the traps we fell into by voting in certain individuals, trusting Gary that "he'd take care of us come contract time" and then said "should have negotiated for it" and provide the comparison with how things were with Herb at the helm essentially outlining the trust issues.

You can do all this without putting down the 20+% of the pilot group who simply don't know what they don't know but have been exposed to Koolaid Kumbaya for months. You can rest assured that the newbies aren't being put down on a daily basis by CP and his people at the GO. Why should they listen to you when all you do is put them down? Stop! Tell them the stuff they haven't and won't hear in training. You know all this because you've lived it. You can look back and see the mistakes this pilot group has made. Keep pointing them out without condescension but matter-of-factly and give people a chance to hear a counterpoint to Koolaid Kumbaya.

Well said, RJS. Unfortunately, too many of the SAIEW crowd likes their first impression to a new hire to be dumping on them for wearing flag ties.

I swear some of that crowd never passes up an opportunity to pass up an opportunity.

Been doing exactly that for decades, and will continue to do so.

FWIW, I haven't mentioned the flag tie to anyone since the last contract vote, and I didn't even harp on it then.

Like most of the other things "we" argue about, it's just more chaff that dilutes the important issues.

On the up side you just don’t see too many flag ties anymore these days. Left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth I guess.


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Traded an airplane a few trips back and both guys were in hats and blazers. Thought they were OAL guys trying to get on the jumpseat. Don’t see that too often.

I read the SWAPA negotiating/vision book they mailed out. Looks like all very good stuff to me. I guess the goal can be lost in the details once a TA emerges though. I thought the contract comparison booklet was very interesting. We have some very good language with scope, and the real big ticket keep your job stuff. Seems most of the lag is in pay rates, especially where I’m at in year 2-5 FO land, and disability benefits.

Overall, I’m a big fan of industry leading NB pay at the monthly guarantee, since the staffing is only getting me that. For the peripheral stuff, if I’m making good money, I’ll decide what to spend on where I park, what uniform I want to buy, what headset I want to use, etc.

I’d even say, if I’m the best paid NB pilot in America, I’ll decide whether I want to spend my money on disability insurance or not, life insurance or not, and so on. If the money is right, I’d rather guys got the choice of how to spend it, rather than be locked into a one size fits all company provided/administered program. Of course, having both would be the best outcome, and that seems to be what the union’s going in game plan is all about.

My first airline and first union, so I read all the union emails, SEP stuff, blogs, etc. Did some reading in the SWAPA forums, too, though those seem relatively dead other than some stuff about backdoor negotiations happening between a union officer and management in the last negotiation cycle. Seems we have pretty darn reasonable asks that benefit not just us, but the company as a whole.

Looking forward to what the negotiating team works out. The SEP process has been very educating and gives me some confidence in SWAPA.

Psycho