Pilot ETO Program
 

Details are out. I’m sure they’ll get more than they can take. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...87e5c05ff3.jpg


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Sign me up

Sweet!!!

My neighbor is a dealer.

2 months please

I'll pass on that. Maybe someone close to retirement or married rich will take it.

I am curious if the company will offer early retirement packages too or if they are first seeing how this goes before offering permanent buyouts.

I am assuming the flight attendants are being offered something similar. Anyone know about that?

Meth? have fun

They are. It is very similar to ours.

flight attendants got same deal. Both deals, pilot and FA, were offered without union involvement. The FA union came out against it and recommended not to participate. Pilot union said they were not consulted. For me I feel it's an end around of the contract and I'd like the company to work with the union.

Compared to the offer AA got, this doesn’t even come close. For where I’m at, 5 year FO pay its $3000 less a month.

AA offer of 55 hours a month at 169/hr = $9300
SW offer of 44TFP a month at 143/tfp = $6300

Maybe they think SWAG points will make up for it!!

So the Kompany ignores the unions who have solutions to this and other problems all the while planes are virtually empty?

Maybe they just aren’t that worried.

OTOH, going to be a hard pill to swallow if they seek more cost cutting measures. Would hate to see people on the street when other measures aren’t considered for what reasons?

SWAG and your coworkers are so much fun. Now let’s all chip in for fuel.

The Association was not allowed to help put this together. Offer to help was rebuffed.

I liked reading the FA union response, recommending against taking this.

I hope TOTAL lack of participation from pilots encourages the company to engage with the Association to craft something suitable and detailed.

I've heard that SWAPA sent a demand letter to SWA for violating their rights as the collective bargaining agent. SWA now wants to confer with SWAPA about an ETO (yes SWA must rename everything) plan.

I've already spoken to two sheep who are thinking of taking it.
The masses here are *****es and happy to be one.

American offered something like 640 early retirements and got 622 takers. Don't know the details but I'd like to see something like that.


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I'd like to see 600 pilots senior to me retire too :0

would be nice for upgrade times when this all is over

Gary talks about it in the second video... they haven't given early retirements any serious thoughts... go figure.

He sounded to me like he was open to it

I would certainly hope that furloughs would be a desperate measure of last resort and that other alternatives like early retirements, reduced guarantee (with a snapback date and retroactivity), etc. would be explored first.

My guess is that early retirements are much more valuable at other airlines since it reduces displacements between fleet types--especially when the retirements are mainly from fleets that won't fly again soon in any case. Alas, at SWA, there's little cost to downgrading a bunch of captains and furloughing FOs--maybe two months of furlough pay and 15 trips of right seat pay for the downgrade. The SWA CEO is an accountant first and foremost---who realizes quickly that there's not much money saved by offering early retirements.

But the majority of those furloughed up to 20% of the list would be like 4-5 year FO pay. Early out for the top ten percent would still be cheaper, no?

A talked to a Chief in Dallas on one of my sits last trip about this. He said the problem with early retirements is most of those guys participate in the Top Hat program, which I believe is company managed. If they retire, the company has to distribute that, which is many, many millions. Never thought of that.


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Pilot ETO Program
 

Idiot conversations like this are why I never ask a Chief about anything not related to their actual job.
That is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. That top hat money is accounted for on the balance sheet and while the company is "holding it", it isn't theirs and never will be.

Early retirements would be a good fit to save money. Buy guys off at the top of the list for a good price. They lose their 1600 sick bank that they had planned on burning down and go home and collect a check and wait for the market to eventually bottom out and come back with a vengeance. Win win.
Here is the problem: pilots at SWA are just another employee. What you offer to one employee at SWA, you have to offer to everyone. We would have to name a new VP to invent a program for everyone and give it a different acronym than every other airline.
The other problem is that the company absolutely refuses to own the poor decision to overman the pilot group despite every indicator and line pilot saying it was a terrible idea. Remember a few months ago when everyone was in disbelief on how overmanned we were? That's when we had 87 percent load factors. That poor planning decision is currently costing them millions of dollars a month. Who will suffer the consequences for that? Hint...look in the mirror.

Au contraire! Top Hat money can be theirs if things got bad enough and they declared bankruptcy. That’s a pretty doom & gloom scenario but I’m just playing devils advocate.

To look at this scenario through very bullish glasses, perhaps they don’t want to give early outs (just yet) so that when things come roaring back they’ll have the man power and MAXes to really grab some extra market share. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened in this industry.

Yeah I totally get the Ch 11 scenario. I should have put that out there. Lots of guys put money in top hat back in the day thinking that could never happen. It is a line item on a balance sheet, so it is fair game.

Spirit is 50 @ $210 = $10.500 (over 95% are captain at year 5, and all can hold it, so I think fair comparison)

LUV our FA's
 

As much as I love our FA's, I could become one in 2-3 months. If they want as good of a deal as the pilots, then they need to do something that takes a decade of their lives to work towards with no guarantee. It seems like a great opportunity to bounce 1/3 of the senior mama's and papa's (don't forget the "theythey's) and replace them with some Guatemalans who would be glad to do it for $25k/yr, live 8 to a room in the US for half their lives, and the other half as very wealthy people in their home country.

Yes, I am completely heartless when it comes to senior FA's making as much as a 1st year FO, and more than some Captains at the Regional s.

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Exactly!
 

The most insightful statement made on this thread so far. The other big 3 have a lot more to gain through early retirements due to the cost of retraining. It's a ripple effect on their entire cost of doing business.

Maybe you could get qualified, but with that attitude you would never get hired. And if you got hired, there is no way you would be able to handle it for 20 years like the senior p&m have. I was an FA for 2 years, pilot for over 2 decades. Your FAs and gate crew do more for your public appreciation than the pilots by a big margin.

Been saying this for years. Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s even worse at the legacies, senior flight attendants make more than regional captains. You get better service from the 2nd world/3rd world crew on cruise ships than you do from your average flight attendant.

It's funny you mention 'public perception' and 'attitude.' Why does this hit close to home?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeBIhm-x564

Did you know that the substantial majority of the current flight attendant corps in the US couldn't get hired overseas as flight attendants primarily because of those two reasons you mention?

Ever wonder why some of the highest-rated airlines by Skytrax have things like mandatory retirement age (42 is the lowest I've seen so far) for flight attendants? Why some require you to fit into a single size uniform? Why a number of airlines are expecting their flight attendants to be a symbol of grace and style to the point that the flight attendant makeup shades are regulated by their manual; how they present a drink or a tray to a passenger; how they bend as opposed to slouching? Stray from the standards, and you'd be gone so fast your head would spin. Mouth off to a passenger, you're gone. They have people for that - you don't stray from presenting grace and style. Put on a few lbs, and you will be given a timeframe to lose the weight. If you don't... you're gone. You might be able to work in a different role, but definitely not as a flight attendant.

I recall once sitting in LHR and I recall seeing a US legacy crew walk by. It was about what you'd expect. They were followed by a Singapore crew and a Thai Airways crew. Then another US crew. You know how we're all proud to be Americans? This was a big exception... I felt embarrassed. Talk about an in-your-face display of where we stand and rank.

Many foreign airlines select their FAs as a matter of national pride. They provide the pinnacle of customer service and professional presentations and manners. Absolutely incredible! U.S. airlines aren't capable of playing ball in the same park. Tragedy! Very sad. Awful performance on our part. I just don't see any argument on this unless your mind is paralyzed by social justice stuff...

What difference does it make what they make? You get what you negotiate.

same speak as management BTW.

“No pilot should be making more than upper level management”

Looks like roughly 821 pilots took ETO.

The great thing was it wasn't even negotiable. The company ignored our contract and did this unilaterally. So the suckers that took it probably could have gotten more if nobody took it. Sucks for them

True but I doubt they care. Many were prob likely to drop MIL leave, bang out sick or give away everything anyway.

Yep. About half of those FOs are doing mil duty. Good for them. I would too.

I know some people that took it for health issues of family members or themselves stop being a d*ck.