Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3141740)

Amen. I am not for rolling over, but I am for smart, out of the box thinking that is going to enrich both sides in the end. It's give and take, and we have given plenty already in the form of a conscious decision to overman the pilot group by middle management.
I do not want to see anyone on the street and I do not want to see us giving the company a deal where we are exploited for an outsized chunk of the pie. They already started shrinking our piece a couple of years ago and took the cherry and the whipped cream when they continued hiring into 2020 with no max.
I recognize that it takes a village to run a low cost airline, but our house has already made a pretty big offering. If we are forced to give more, I want to see how, in the end, I am going to be enriched by my sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Wildturkey (Post 3141852)

Hardliners are toxic, but usually a small minority. They typically don’t actually suffer from the consequences of the decisions that they advocate for others.

When they say they’ll see you in the soup kitchen, the probably have a side gig, military fallback so money isn’t a problem. And they’ve probably actually never been to a soup kitchen. (I.e severe lack of reality about the world around them)

There isn’t anything romantic or heroic or tough about advocating for your own job loss.

Originally Posted by saturn (Post 3141847)

Over at Delta the hardliners have tried to convince the masses that voluntary paid leaves are concessions, because the rest of the pilots might have more reserve usage or can't get holidays off. All the while telling pilots its better to furlough than allow paid- leaves. Beware of the hardliners whose only motive is their status quo.

Originally Posted by Squallrider (Post 3141991)

I’m in the furlough zone and I’m a firm no on pay rate changes. Year 1-5 here is substantially lower than any of the
big three. I knew that coming here, but it was a fair trade with quality of life from elitt and job security, now through no fault of the company this Pandemic has killed those two benefits so pay is all we have and it’s low. Yes it’s 70% captain pay but unless upgrade drops to lower than 5 years that scale is bs.
only way I consider voting yes if is there’s a firm date for snap back say July 1st 2021 with no exceptions. GK has stated we can’t cut routes cOs it will hurt revenue therefor I can’t see how less pilots afford a expanding route structure.

Originally Posted by Squallrider (Post 3141991)

only way I consider voting yes if is there’s a firm date for snap back say July 1st 2021 with no exceptions.

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3141992)

honest question from an outsider, does your company appear to want rate cuts or just hours? Every airline deal I have seen so far is just some form of hour cut but rates were left unchanged (probably dues to cares act prohibiting rate cuts before OCT1)

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 3141967)

Concessions? Not even interesting in discussing them because we no longer sell alcohol on flights, and the middle seats are still blocked off. In other words, it's not my job to subsidize maskholes who wear them into the shower. And alcohol? ZERO reason for that. I could understand that early on in the pandemic where we literally flew 10 passengers on a flight for weeks on end, but today with many flights being COVID-full? Booze always sells and we aren't even addressing it.