SWA WARN letters to pilots
12-07-2020, 11:47 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,122
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
So I get it that if union members organize job actions on a public forum it can be used against them in court.
But realistically, how can a company or a judge FORCE individual pilots to work on their days off?
But realistically, how can a company or a judge FORCE individual pilots to work on their days off?
In spirit's case, the status quo was re-established because it was all bull**** to begin with since the job action was fake, orchestrated by the company via a deliberately inefficient schedule and temporary scheduling policies that slowed down the process used to cover open flights. The next month's schedule was normal and scheduling started calling to get coverage at the usual pace again, so the "work slowdown" evaporated like the ghost it really was.
Here though, SWA is already losing $10M/day so even a penny loss that can be blamed on the pilots could easily lead to an attempt to place financial liability on both SWAPA and individuals, on top of potential criminal charges. Because we're already losing money, the "return to status quo" would be hard as hell to prove or disprove since the company can make up whatever story they want and cherry pick the data to prove some sort of status quo change even if they caused it themselves or if it's a normal seasonal variation.
Pointing out that sick and fatigue calls have PLUMMETED during the pandemic as our pilots stepped up to help out, would be a logical rebuttal but I highly doubt it would be enough especially if the judge again rules before the union lawyer even gets to the hearing.
12-07-2020, 11:58 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
Explain to me how exactly in your “experience with the federal judiciary” they force a pilot to work on their day off?
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
I’m pretty sure any action taken would be against the union and its officers. That could result in crippling fines or damage awards. It can also harm the union’s bargaining position in negotiations.
12-07-2020, 02:47 PM
#154
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Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Yes, belonging to a union is very nice like that, indeed.
1) You may get a rather large dues increase to cover SWAPA's fines.
2) If you ever made snarky remarks that the company could interpret as intimidating or threatening others about picking up OT, you may find yourself in an unemployment line, and that's after you've been personally named in their lawsuit against SWAPA.
3) If you do something that remotely falls outside of contract and status quo, you can find yourself in an unemployment line and also added individually to the lawsuit.
But fret not, no SWAT team coming to your house, and you're free from zip ties until the next recurrent, or your next LAS layover.
1) You may get a rather large dues increase to cover SWAPA's fines.
2) If you ever made snarky remarks that the company could interpret as intimidating or threatening others about picking up OT, you may find yourself in an unemployment line, and that's after you've been personally named in their lawsuit against SWAPA.
3) If you do something that remotely falls outside of contract and status quo, you can find yourself in an unemployment line and also added individually to the lawsuit.
But fret not, no SWAT team coming to your house, and you're free from zip ties until the next recurrent, or your next LAS layover.
12-07-2020, 08:09 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by gipple
Wasting your time wringing your hands over refusing open time at Southwestern Trailways. Your cohearts would sell their dear old mom for a sweet turn, never mind caring for fuloughees.
12-07-2020, 08:46 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,256
Taking bets on rationalizations the kool-aid drinkers will use post-covid to explain the furlough letters as they're voting YES! on another sub-par SL, MOU, or CBA.
- "I don't live in the past."
- "Let bygones be bygones."
- "We were overmanned anyway."
- "How's that stock price?"
- "Gary had to issue the letters in order to get Congress to act. He saved jobs by sending the furlough notices."
- "You thought he was actually going to furlough? How naïve are you? If you believed that, I've got some waterfront property in AZ to sell you. Gary plays 4-D chess. Sorry you fell for it. Grrrr hrrr hrr hr."
12-07-2020, 10:50 PM
#157
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by flensr
They say "comply with status quo". If statistical analysis shows a drop in, for example, OT pickups, or an increase in sick calls, or an increase in flight cancellations due to pilot availability, then they can hit the group with a TRO saying "don't do that". Then if the identified negative trends continue, they can find the group in violation of the court order, with a wide range of consequences. They could, for example, sue the union for damages and losses. Or they could target individuals they determine to be responsible for organizational activities (or advocating), and go after them for financial liability or a criminal complaint on top of whatever penalties levied for the group as a whole violating the original order to return to status quo.
In spirit's case, the status quo was re-established because it was all bull**** to begin with since the job action was fake, orchestrated by the company via a deliberately inefficient schedule and temporary scheduling policies that slowed down the process used to cover open flights. The next month's schedule was normal and scheduling started calling to get coverage at the usual pace again, so the "work slowdown" evaporated like the ghost it really was.
Here though, SWA is already losing $10M/day so even a penny loss that can be blamed on the pilots could easily lead to an attempt to place financial liability on both SWAPA and individuals, on top of potential criminal charges. Because we're already losing money, the "return to status quo" would be hard as hell to prove or disprove since the company can make up whatever story they want and cherry pick the data to prove some sort of status quo change even if they caused it themselves or if it's a normal seasonal variation.
Pointing out that sick and fatigue calls have PLUMMETED during the pandemic as our pilots stepped up to help out, would be a logical rebuttal but I highly doubt it would be enough especially if the judge again rules before the union lawyer even gets to the hearing.
In spirit's case, the status quo was re-established because it was all bull**** to begin with since the job action was fake, orchestrated by the company via a deliberately inefficient schedule and temporary scheduling policies that slowed down the process used to cover open flights. The next month's schedule was normal and scheduling started calling to get coverage at the usual pace again, so the "work slowdown" evaporated like the ghost it really was.
Here though, SWA is already losing $10M/day so even a penny loss that can be blamed on the pilots could easily lead to an attempt to place financial liability on both SWAPA and individuals, on top of potential criminal charges. Because we're already losing money, the "return to status quo" would be hard as hell to prove or disprove since the company can make up whatever story they want and cherry pick the data to prove some sort of status quo change even if they caused it themselves or if it's a normal seasonal variation.
Pointing out that sick and fatigue calls have PLUMMETED during the pandemic as our pilots stepped up to help out, would be a logical rebuttal but I highly doubt it would be enough especially if the judge again rules before the union lawyer even gets to the hearing.
-everyone
This thread is starting to sound like intimidation to pick up open time. Make extra money if you want to. Or don’t. It’s that simple. That said. Fine line to defend picking up time while sounding like a “company man”
12-08-2020, 03:48 AM
#159
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by Dane Bramage
RJS,
After all these years, you believe the SWA pilot group would ever do anything to stem the incessant selfishness pervasive in the group?
After all these years, you believe the SWA pilot group would ever do anything to stem the incessant selfishness pervasive in the group?
Nope. And I think we’ll be fighting amongst ourselves because we can’t see the forest for the trees.
12-08-2020, 04:04 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,209
Originally Posted by gipple
Wasting your time wringing your hands over refusing open time at Southwestern Trailways. Your cohearts would sell their dear old mom for a sweet turn, never mind caring for fuloughees.
That is for sure
look how many picked up premium POT. During the picket days . There is no unity and never will be .
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