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- - Wait, what? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/southwest/141399-wait-what.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy81 (Post 3585122)

Pay rates will have to match or exceed the OAL's if they have any hope of hiring the numbers they want.

Why? We'll have every CFI in the book try to get hired with us now that we've dropped the mins to 500 turbine PREFERRED. Standby for the bonus scheme for the newhires.

Quote:

The longer they draw this out, the better off we are in terms of the final product. Had they agreed to everything we wanted in 2020.....we'd be so far behind it wouldn't even be funny.

So true. My price certainly keeps going up the longer they delay this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 3585185)

Why? We'll have every CFI in the book try to get hired with us now that we've dropped the mins to 500 turbine PREFERRED. Standby for the bonus scheme for the newhires.

So true. My price certainly keeps going up the longer they delay this...

I don't think we're quite to the point of hiring CFI's. B6, NK and F9 are all hiring low time RJ FO's with 1500TT and unrestricted ATP's, and it's not helping their attrition any....as soon as those guys have the time to leave they're going to DL, AA, UAL. We will still have attrition, but we haven't seen that level of attrition yet. I'd guess with a new CBA our attrition will come down some, but if you lived in a legacy base with their quick upgrades....it's hard to beat even if a topped out CA makes $400/tfp

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy81 (Post 3585198)

True statement, though I think we'll see 0 turbine time people coming to us via D225 though.

But you're right... the math of staying here currently just doesn't make much sense if you're on the bottom of the seniority list, or even if you're a commuter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy81 (Post 3585198)

The new requirements are gonna attract a lot of people from the ULCC’s. Probably enough to not have to hire low time FOs out of the regionals

Quote:

Originally Posted by REF 5 (Post 3585060)

Their are definitely provisions in our current CBA that need attention. I would argue though that our health care is pretty damn good here. All of my friends at other carriers have to pay premium's in their health insurance plans. We do not unless you choose the choice plans. Max out of pocket of 2500 bucks which includes prescriptions. I haven't had to pay premiums in years. That's a big cost. The other is scope/code sharing. Nobody has the restrictions that we do. The other three have PBS. No thank you. None of them have had 100% retro. No thank you again. I'll take mine. Current CBA gives a 15% NEC. Thats worth 2.5-3.0 million depending what age you get hired here. Thats only the company contribution. That didn't even exist six years ago. Personally I think we should do away with profit sharing as a "benefit". I'll take that in more NEC funding. Sick time and disability need to be revamped. 100% agree on that. We should have the ability to cash a portion of that out and be tied only to sick. That is an 800 million asset to the pilot group we can't get to. And it's also tied to disability. That needs to change.

I see where you are coming from, especially over the last two years here. It has been a ****** show for sure. Seems we roll from crisis into the next. That is concerning. The pilot pool is dwindling and it's not going to get better anytime soon. WE definitely need industry leading BUT don't take away my healthcare, code sharing/scope. And leave PBS to others. It's healthy to challenge and speak truth to power whether it's the CEO or the SWAPA president. This place has never had a lead industry contract. To get it we may have to walk. Im ready. Vote yes on the SAV and save your money.

I agree with the points you made about our health care under The Regular Plan being decent on paper (though it could always be better). What I do think is deficient about our health care plans is the administration of them. Nearly every claim I have submitted over the last five years has ended up needing to be dealt with by Kerrey at Resolute Health Care Advisors due to some sort of claim rejection or underpayment. So, on paper, The Regular Plan is decent. In practice, it is severely lacking in my own experience but especially as evidenced by the stories I've heard about our pilots or their family members dealing with serious medical situations and then also having to deal with the stress of rejected claims and the bureaucracy of trying to get them processed correctly.

And then on the NEC, we are industry-lagging on the company contribution rate and severely lagging in our career retirement fund accumulation. Given our career-average hourly/TFP rates compared to the typical lifetime progression at our peer Big Three airlines, FedEx, and UPS, we would need a dramatically better NEC contribution than them to pull even in terms of end-of-career retirement fund amounts with them. I'm not a tax expert, so even dramatically better rates may not be able to do it once IRS limitations are taken into account (not sure).

Given the amount of hassle involved with the processing of our medical claims, I think it is reasonable to include in C2020 a contractual provision that would allow us to file for reimbursement by our seat position and longevity for the time we have to spend dealing with getting medical claims processed correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingboots (Post 3585232)

The new requirements are gonna attract a lot of people from the ULCC’s. Probably enough to not have to hire low time FOs out of the regionals

Guys from the ULCC’s aren’t coming here. Why would they make a lateral/backwards step when a legacy is their ultimate goal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 3585185)

So true. My price certainly keeps going up the longer they delay this...

Yep, same here!

SAV then maximum pressure and exploit every bit of leverage we have!

See y’all at the next picket. New York was awesome.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrustisamust (Post 3585415)

Guys from the ULCC’s aren’t coming here. Why would they make a lateral/backwards step when a legacy is their ultimate goal?

Yes, why would they?

I personally think SWA management may even prefer that we’re not a destination airline. As long as jets aren’t falling out of the sky, by morphing into a stepping stone airline, the average longevity step pay rate is kept to a minimum. Cost savings for the company.

Also, younger pilots who want to move on often prefer to be and can better handle being worked like rented mules so that they can more quickly build hours to move on to a place that can provide them with the goodies that go along with industry-leading contracts. Another cost savings for the company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan (Post 3585100)

You realize that the 15% NEC is 1% BELOW industry standard and we will only fall further behind in retirement as time goes on… don’t you? I ask only because it sounded like you were praising it and while it’s much better than the old match, it was intentionally provocative to peg us a measly 1% behind everyone else.

When I turned down a DAL interview to come to SWA 5-6 yrs ago (worst decision ever but the propaganda was so strong), DAL had 16% DC PLUS 4% matching! So I put in 4, they put in 20! Way superior than ours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty (Post 3585425)

Waaaait one second!

Are you saying the cult-ure and our work rules aren’t doing it for you? What about all those SWA guys posting their enormous W-2’s on the APC End of Year Salary Survey threads? Doesn’t that make you feel better?