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-   -   MAX7 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/southwest/146039-max7.html)

Salukidawg 09-19-2025 06:02 AM


Originally Posted by REF 5 (Post 3950973)
I think everyone has gotten MAX 7 fatigue. Last year management didn't mention the airplane at all except when asked. This year, it seems with Boeing having different leadership, they openly talk about it at conferences and earnings call's. I'm curious about how many we will take. AW has mentioned a few times now they are not planning on taking as many as they originally ordered. He never gave a number, just that the needs of SWA have changed and the order book for that airplane has changed with it.

I agree with this as well. I remember Andrew saying this last year. We still wanted the MAX7, just not as many as we originally wanted. I see the MAX7 the same way as the -500’s to a certain extent. I know that WN only took 25 -500’s and I think we will take more than 25 MAX7’s just maybe not 300-400 of them as they originally thought. I see us with a fleet of them in the 150-200 range and the rest of the fleet MAX8//9/10 and B787’s eventually.

e6bpilot 09-19-2025 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by Dbsurf17 (Post 3950977)
SWA is coalescing into a hub and spoke carrier, as 2 recent route additions show, tus-phx, and mke- mdw. Lesser need for a smaller aircraft as we pull away from point to point. From Boeing's perspective SWA is the only substantial customer for the -7, while they have a deep order book for the other variants. Even the -7s that currently exist, parked in Moses Lake, SWA doesn't want them cuz they're 7 years old

PTP isn't dead. It is SWAs main competitive advantage these days. People will pay $200 more per ticket to not make a connection. Also, hub and spoke would need a smaller plane to feed the hub and bigger planes to fly the trunk flights. I would think TUS-PHX is a great example of a flight that a 150 (or smaller) sized plane would do very well.

REF 5 09-19-2025 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3950990)
PTP isn't dead. It is SWAs main competitive advantage these days. People will pay $200 more per ticket to not make a connection. Also, hub and spoke would need a smaller plane to feed the hub and bigger planes to fly the trunk flights. I would think TUS-PHX is a great example of a flight that a 150 (or smaller) sized plane would do very well.

It's not so much about the gauge of the aircraft as it is about frequency. AW talked more about the MAX7 within that context. P2P is king at SWA. And will be for quite sometime. Although they have been "dialing up" the connections per TD(CFO). Hence why the displacements. I do believe though the network, fleet and customer experience are all under a great deep dive of what that will look like in few years. As we know adding fleet types, hub and spoke and segmenting the cabin add complexity and cost. We'll see.

WHACKMASTER 09-19-2025 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by Salukidawg (Post 3950929)
So who are we buying with a smaller MAX7 size Aircraft? They still need an Aircraft of that size, so they must be eyeing someone with an Aircraft of that size….Blue Horseshoe Luv’s JetBlue Airways.

Breeze…..obviously.

e6bpilot 09-19-2025 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER (Post 3951013)
Breeze…..obviously.

I have said it before...this is the only merger that would make any sense. Kill a competitor, get aircraft and orders. I don't know if the planes are worth the headache of a whole merger, but of all the stupid theories, this one is the least stupid.
Given the current chaos around the C suite and BOD right now, I highly doubt any sort of merger is going to happen.

WHACKMASTER 09-19-2025 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by Dbsurf17 (Post 3950977)
SWA is coalescing into a hub and spoke carrier, as 2 recent route additions show, tus-phx, and mke- mdw. Lesser need for a smaller aircraft as we pull away from point to point. From Boeing's perspective SWA is the only substantial customer for the -7, while they have a deep order book for the other variants. Even the -7s that currently exist, parked in Moses Lake, SWA doesn't want them cuz they're 7 years old

Um, really? Lesser need for a smaller aircraft? TUS-PHX or MKE-MDW needs a MAX8 on it? Okay…..

If anything, hub and spoke more so requires a smaller aircraft to feed the hub.

hoover 09-19-2025 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3951019)
I have said it before...this is the only merger that would make any sense. Kill a competitor, get aircraft and orders. I don't know if the planes are worth the headache of a whole merger, but of all the stupid theories, this one is the least stupid.
Given the current chaos around the C suite and BOD right now, I highly doubt any sort of merger is going to happen.

I really dont like the idea of breeze pilots who have been there a couple years coming over and bumping our guus down because they were cpt at a start up. I dont want to start an SLI discussion over something that isn't even a strong rumour. I see their planes as something that would fut but thats it. I dont think they are a competetor or have any routes/gates of value.
I still think the 195E2 is the better option for those already on property.

ZapBrannigan 09-19-2025 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER (Post 3951049)
Um, really? Lesser need for a smaller aircraft? TUS-PHX or MKE-MDW needs a MAX8 on it? Okay…..

If anything, hub and spoke more so requires a smaller aircraft to feed the hub.

I've been saying that for years. We need a small airplane before we get a bigger one. Smaller airplanes to provide incremental feed to fill a widebody year round.

That said, RJs are high CASM products, so maybe not TOO small.

USAir carried 175 pax in the 757 in 1999.
They carried 144 in the 737-400 (which is the same size as the 800).

Our 737s carry as many people as their 757s did. We cram a lot of people into these suckers, so a smaller airplane is appropriate to feed the “mainline” for lack of a better term.

i like the Breeze idea. I wonder if Neeleman still harbors a grudge from when Herb fired him?


ZapBrannigan 09-19-2025 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by hoover (Post 3951052)
I really dont like the idea of breeze pilots who have been there a couple years coming over and bumping our guus down because they were cpt at a start up. I dont want to start an SLI discussion over something that isn't even a strong rumour. I see their planes as something that would fut but thats it. I dont think they are a competetor or have any routes/gates of value.
I still think the 195E2 is the better option for those already on property.

I agree re: the 195E2. Breeze and Avelo do have some interesting markets though. Huntsville is the new headquarters for Space Force, New Haven, Connecticut..
Wilmington, Deleware..

Theres money to be made point to point in those markets along with some that Allegiant has a monopoly in.

hoover 09-19-2025 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan (Post 3951057)
I've been saying that for years. We need a small airplane before we get a bigger one. Smaller airplanes to provide incremental feed to fill a widebody year round.

That said, RJs are high CASM products, so maybe not TOO small.

USAir carried 175 pax in the 757 in 1999.
They carried 144 in the 737-400 (which is the same size as the 800).

Our 737s carry as many people as their 757s did. We cram a lot of people into these suckers, so a smaller airplane is appropriate to feed the “mainline” for lack of a better term.

i like the Breeze idea. I wonder if Neeleman still harbors a grudge from when Herb fired him?

not to nit pick but the 400 is not the same size as the 800. About 10' shorter.
An all economy class and we hualed 162 in it. With a 1st class 12 1st class seats we hauled 150.
Little underpowered when full and high/hot.


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