Southwest cuts capacity & rethinks 2024
03-13-2024, 07:51 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by VacancyBid
They need to optimise RASM why? to make wall street happy
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
The obvious solution here is to implement first class which would bring in more business travel, attract the post-Covid leisure travelers that are splurging on first class and which is most likely a new permanent kind of traveler at this point, and solve the 800 having too many seats.
But it will never happen because that’s too drastic of a change from how SWA operated in 1971.
03-13-2024, 09:40 AM
#22
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,663
Originally Posted by VacancyBid
They need to optimise RASM why? to make wall street happy
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
Yes the operation is run that tight that an additional :15 per turn messes it up.
03-13-2024, 10:35 AM
#23
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,941
Once we get past RASM and CASM, we need to talk about gate restrictions.
6 of our BUR gates have a "no -800/max8" restriction. Either due to wing tip clearance or tail clearance behind.
HOU- 4 gates with the same restrictions
LAS- 2 gates
MDW- 6 gates
PHX- 4 gates
SAN- 2 gates
Maybe there are more, but you get the point. Can't have too many of a type that can't go into all of our gates or it starts to become unworkable.
6 of our BUR gates have a "no -800/max8" restriction. Either due to wing tip clearance or tail clearance behind.
HOU- 4 gates with the same restrictions
LAS- 2 gates
MDW- 6 gates
PHX- 4 gates
SAN- 2 gates
Maybe there are more, but you get the point. Can't have too many of a type that can't go into all of our gates or it starts to become unworkable.
03-13-2024, 11:23 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,445
Originally Posted by VacancyBid
They need to optimise RASM why? to make wall street happy
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
Put another way, how much more does it cost to fly a Max8 versus a Max7 over the same route with same payload. Does the fuel burn delta really tank the operation? Is there some other increased marginal cost for operating an 8?
Turn times, gate restrictions, giving away seats for free, capacity creep, cost creep, etc. Yes, when you have an airline that operates 5000 flights a day, saving 300 pounds of gas on 1/3 of those flights adds up to a huge savings.
Like I said, they are taking Max8 orders in lieu of 7s right now. You can do that for a while. SWA serves a lot of markets that legacy airlines serve with 50 or 70 seat aircraft. They need a smaller gauge aircraft just like every other airline.
03-13-2024, 12:19 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 376
So many great points have been made here. Simply put Southwest really needs the Max-7. The smaller more fuel-efficient plane fits our business model and many of the niche markets we serve.
I totally get the cries of do not put all of your eggs in one basket but like others have said you can't just flip a switch and get 200 A-220s or E-195 E2s here in the next 6 months. I sure hope Boeing can get their act together but hopefully in 1-2 years we will start getting dozens of Max-7s and hopefully they serve us well.
I totally get the cries of do not put all of your eggs in one basket but like others have said you can't just flip a switch and get 200 A-220s or E-195 E2s here in the next 6 months. I sure hope Boeing can get their act together but hopefully in 1-2 years we will start getting dozens of Max-7s and hopefully they serve us well.
03-13-2024, 01:45 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 141
Gate size is a hard stop and a seems like problem to solve
Turn times seem like a function of the number of passenges onboard and not something inherent to the Max 8.
I'm still interested in the marginal costs to operate a Max8 over a Max7 for a given route with identical loads. Small things do add up ... but the exact amount matters. If, as suggested, it is 300 lbs per segment, that would be about $116 at current prices (https://www.iata.org/en/publications.../fuel-monitor/). An average passenger count 1-2 seats higher would offset that and presumably not destroy the turn times.
Turn times seem like a function of the number of passenges onboard and not something inherent to the Max 8.
I'm still interested in the marginal costs to operate a Max8 over a Max7 for a given route with identical loads. Small things do add up ... but the exact amount matters. If, as suggested, it is 300 lbs per segment, that would be about $116 at current prices (https://www.iata.org/en/publications.../fuel-monitor/). An average passenger count 1-2 seats higher would offset that and presumably not destroy the turn times.
03-14-2024, 07:13 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 613
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
A lot of our markets truly need a 150 seat or less aircraft. Our -800s and MAX 8s are 175 seats. They also want the added performance and range of the MAX 7 for certain markets (the biggest of which is DEN-Hawaii).
03-14-2024, 07:42 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,188
Originally Posted by N6279P
The thought of a 737 from DEN to Hawaii seriously makes me laugh. Good luck with that.
You are the poster child of how airline pilots are idiots . I get your point, but do you really think you are sharper than the ones making the decisions?
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