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Old 11-16-2016 | 11:04 AM
  #11  
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Just a piece of advice, make all calculations using only monthly guarantee. SWA guarantees 88 Trips For Pay as a monthly average (89TFP for 31 day months, 87 for 30 day months, 85 for 28-29 day months). FedEx guarantees 74 hours each month.

Run your spreadsheet using the bare minimums, including all retirement figures. Use conservative estimates for profit sharing. Once you get a baseline you can adjust from there if you deem it necessary.

You said you are using 113 TFP at SWA. That very well be an accurate estimate for the pilot group as a whole because there a lot of ultra high TFP earners. I personally average closer to 90-95 because I like more days off. Everyone is different so use the bare minimums as a baseline and adjust from there if necessary.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 11:12 AM
  #12  
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I would be surprised if boxes weren't flying themselves within 10 years time.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 06:15 PM
  #13  
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Both are definitely solid companies. Sounds to me like you would enjoy international flying and seeing other parts of the world. Having done that myself on the corporate side, I can tell you it is quite exhausting...at least it is to me. However, it sounds like the schedules at SW can be quite exhausting as well. The plus side there is you aren't hopping 8 time zones.

I think the drive from COS to DEN would get old fast. That may come in to play as you get more senior with a chance to get more turns on your schedule? I would think long and hard about what city you believe you will end up in once the kids get out of HS and base your decision on that.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 07:50 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by bay982
I would be surprised if boxes weren't flying themselves within 10 years time.
Given the safety record of the military remotely-piloted stuff currently, my guess is that you're going to be surprised in 10 years when boxes are not, in fact, flying themselves.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 08:31 PM
  #15  
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I think the above posts are spot on. It just depends on YOU and what you want out of life.
In another life, I flew long (8-14 hour) legs over the water and international. I much prefer flying shorter legs and the schedules we have here at SWA. They are dense and generally follow at least an approximate circadian cycle for the entire month. There is a lot you can do with your schedule here, so much that I am still learning two and a half years in.
I think nobody will argue that your lifetime earning potential at purple is much better than SWA. I have many friends who are very happy they work there and really enjoy it, although most don't like the flying (lots of night hub turns).
They are both great places to work. It just depends on what you are looking for. I personally got the long haul night flying out of my system a long time ago. It takes me days to recover from that. Some guys really dig it though.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 08:36 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by gipple
SWA will have lots of redeyes soon. We gave that away for virtually nothing. Most likely another acquisition in the future too.
There is a reason that FedEx are paid well. They don't get to live long to enjoy it.


Red eyes were in our old CBA too. The difference is, almost nothing qualified as a red eye and so you didn't get paid. I flew a HOU to BWI flight a couple of summers ago and saw the sun come up when I landed. It was an effing red eye, but it didn't pay as one because it was scheduled to go at 10pm and just got delayed 5 hours. With our new CBA, I would have received red eye override.
I have no doubt we will be doing them sooner or later with Amadeus coming on line. When they get here, I suspect they won't be anything like what the doom and gloom crowd is worried about and I bet many will bid them.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 09:21 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by e6bpilot
I think the above posts are spot on. It just depends on YOU and what you want out of life.
In another life, I flew long (8-14 hour) legs over the water and international. I much prefer flying shorter legs and the schedules we have here at SWA. They are dense and generally follow at least an approximate circadian cycle for the entire month. There is a lot you can do with your schedule here, so much that I am still learning two and a half years in.
I think nobody will argue that your lifetime earning potential at purple is much better than SWA. I have many friends who are very happy they work there and really enjoy it, although most don't like the flying (lots of night hub turns).
They are both great places to work. It just depends on what you are looking for. I personally got the long haul night flying out of my system a long time ago. It takes me days to recover from that. Some guys really dig it though.
Good advice - how many guys ever retire at SWA under age 65? Remember it was SWA guys that were the big pushers of turning over the age 60 thing. We have plenty that do at FDX - almost all can afford to but the schedule and pay is so good in those last few years that many choose to stay. I doubt it's the same at SWA - your schedule isn't much different if you're a 30 year CA vice a 20 year CA - most guys I know can easily trade into the great trips even at a very junior seniority. Yeah we have some trips that can really suck at Fedex - also have some incredible trips. I have never had a trip that i couldn't work out at least several hours a day and have several hours off. My typical trip has at least 24 hours off - so at SWA you will probably get paid about the same amount of adjusted credit hours but you will be flying 3x as the average Fedex pilot that is enjoying off time on his layover. Overall compensation is no comparison, nor is upward mobility for a new hire today - without crunching numbers I would guess that Fedex is about 25% above in both areas.
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Old 11-16-2016 | 09:50 PM
  #18  
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Default SWA vs FDX

Originally Posted by Smokey23
These will be at FDX long before they make it to SWA:



.
This^^^ Every time I speak with a friend who is going there for a 25+ year career, I cringe a bit as this is the first thing that pops in my mind.

Last edited by Burton78; 11-16-2016 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 11-17-2016 | 02:39 AM
  #19  
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I've got 30+ years left flying boxes...not concerned one iota about remote piloted widebodies flying into airports in densely populated areas, or even single-pilot airliners.

Can it be done from a sheer technological standpoint? Sure...if you consider that even the US military with its long history of 'drone' operation still loses them all the time, and then consider how robust (and "hack-proof") the global datalink would have to be in order to meet certification standards. Consider you'd essentially be operationally limited to existing CAT III Autoland wind/runway limits, too. That also says nothing of the billions in capital costs that would be involved to completely retrofit or even recapitalize freighter fleets to make such a thing possible - a DARPA concept demonstrator in a SE piston that essentially does what a STEC 55X autopilot has done for over a decade ain't remotely the same as a certifiable product in an airliner.

Then let's turn to single pilot operations; Part 23 light-cabin business jets have been flying SP for decades now but even the smallest Part 25 bizjets still require two crewmembers. You'll see Gulfstream 600s operating single pilot and remote-piloted C-17s hauling personnel into AOs long before you see 121 package carriers doing either.

To remain on topic, if you are a short driving distance from a legacy SWA domicile, the QOL that living in domicile provides is worth a fair bit of compensation...but then again, "money has its own QOL". I offer best of luck to OP and would say consideration of single/remote piloted freighters really shouldn't enter into the equation.
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Old 11-17-2016 | 04:08 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Tuck
Good advice - how many guys ever retire at SWA under age 65? Remember it was SWA guys that were the big pushers of turning over the age 60 thing. We have plenty that do at FDX - almost all can afford to but the schedule and pay is so good in those last few years that many choose to stay. I doubt it's the same at SWA - your schedule isn't much different if you're a 30 year CA vice a 20 year CA - most guys I know can easily trade into the great trips even at a very junior seniority. Yeah we have some trips that can really suck at Fedex - also have some incredible trips. I have never had a trip that i couldn't work out at least several hours a day and have several hours off. My typical trip has at least 24 hours off - so at SWA you will probably get paid about the same amount of adjusted credit hours but you will be flying 3x as the average Fedex pilot that is enjoying off time on his layover. Overall compensation is no comparison, nor is upward mobility for a new hire today - without crunching numbers I would guess that Fedex is about 25% above in both areas.


Not trying to get in a contest here, but there are some inaccuracies in this info.
First: age 65 would never have been passed without the support of ALPA. SWAPA did make a rather noisy play to pass it as well, but that was by about 500 pilots in a 6000 pilot union.
Many pilots here (not a lot) quit before 65. Those that don't, though, generally work turn lines and premium two days in their waning days. As one 64 year old who only works international turns (never goes to a hotel) told me "why quit? Between vacation and my sick bank, I only work 3 days a month for half the year. The other half I pick the 6 days I want to come to work. It's like I am retired already."
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