Ridiculous :rolleyes:

How much TT to get call?
 

1700 TT is going to be the new norm for mil guys due to the pool of applicants getting shallow and sequestration not giving someone the opportunity to accrue hours like in the past.
Anyone who is getting hired here has almost a decade of flying experience at a minimum.
The hours for civilians are trending down as well. My class three years ago it was 10k minimum for civilians.
I think the hiring folks have done a great job hiring SWA pilots over the last few years from ALL backgrounds. Your repeated chip on the shoulder act about mil guys is getting pretty tired.

Like I said.....ridiculous. There's guys out there with 10,000-15,000 hours total, 10,000(+) part 121 jet PIC, 4 year degrees with no skeletons in the closets and they can't get an interview.

99% of the time I enjoy reading your posts, Whack. Seriously.

But, assuming you're being serious, why? Because no one with 1700TT could possibly be qualified enough to fly at a major airline? Or because they haven't paid enough in the way of dues to be worthy in your eyes? If you don't have military flying experience, then you have no idea how demanding, diverse, dangerous, or complex those 1700 hours can be. (Notice I said "can" be...just like civilian hours, not all military hours are created equal. But they sure as hell can be all those things).

Now, this is NOT a mil vs. civilian comment. Just because someone doesn't have mil experience doesn't mean they aren't an outstanding pilot. It's not either/or. But what's ridiculous is saying someone getting hired with 1700 hours is ridiculous when you don't know anything about them or the quality of those hours.

Then why not just institute a hiring policy that is based solely on Total Time and PIC? No one gets an interview unless they're next highest time guy on the list. Right.

It's exceedingly frustrating watching RJ Cptns with oodles of experience ALREADY DOING BASICALLY THE EXACT JOB THEY'RE APPLYING FOR AT SWA, not be able to get an interview and then a 1,700 hour TT guy gets hired. I think it's absurd. Let's just agree to disagree for the sake of keeping this thread on it's rails.

Maybe my measly 3300 hours of Mil time will get me an interview call soon. I just hope I can be quick enough to sign up for the job fair.

Fair enough. But we don't completely disagree. I understand your point. And I completely agree that it's crazy that many of those guys can't get interviews. They should be getting interviews right along with the mil guys, but not necessarily instead of them.

Fair enough, Gator. I can respect your opinion.

So here's one for the group:

Seventeen years ago I pinked my Commercial and my CFI check rides. I passed each on retest one week after the fact. I've disclosed this on my application.

In the years since, I've passed two type rides, and every line check and recurrent event I've ever had. I've been a chief pilot, and ACP, and a Standards Captain. My record has been clean ever since.

How heavily do you figure those two busts figure in the hiring/interview equation? Obviously they figure, or the company wouldn't ask that they be disclosed.

I've never interviewed and never gotten the call. I'm wondering if those busts might be the thing that's holding me back.

My stats, btw, are:

8800 TT
3200 TPIC
Three types (no 737)
Heavy international
Part 91K, 135 (no 121)

If I'm not mistaken, the question on the application about checkride failures has been re-phrased to only ask about failures within the past 10 years. It used to be an open-ended question. Regardless, it may factor into the interview invitation, but I am proof that it is not a deal breaker. And once you get the interview, it'll probably be a total non-issue if it was as long ago as you say. Mine was 13 years ago and I think they just wanted to hear me say "yes" when asked if I had any, then moving on.

Actually, there are two questions now: have you EVER failed a check ride, and have you failed any in the preceding ten years. So they seem to be trying to differentiate between ancient history and more recent events.

I don't know how a couple old student busts would effect the computer generated selection for an interview. If I had to venture a guess 3 or more busts or something more recent would probably be a factor. They will ask you about them at the interview and it's your opportunity to own it and be humble. It's an obstacle you overcome and it's your opportunity to check some boxes. This may actually be a positive rather than a negative since it shows you are human. I was a part 61 civilian flight instructor and had some very sharp students bust check rides. Not sure what type of training you had but there was always potential for a failure with a bad roll of the dice.

Good to know.

Young, dumb and full of ... well, suffice it to say the training account was nearing empty and my instructor was a good buddy and I may or may not have strong-armed him into sending me before I was 100% ready and a good DE can tell from a mile off whether you're prepared or just hoping to fake your way through it.

On a somewhat related topic, any word on Southwest dropping the Turbine PIC requirement? There were rumblings of this a while back, then the topic went silent. Earlier this month, I heard the language would change to "1000 Turbine PIC Preferred" but they seemed to back off that at the last moment. Any insights?

I think after the responses they have had from their job fairs, they are not hurting for qualified applicants yet.

This was told to me almost verbatim at WAI. They expect to do it, but not any time soon.

So you're saying I went and got all that jet PIC time for nothing?

Thanks Southwest. Thanks for nothing.*







*joke

Nope. It's still required, and I would assume it still will factor heavily later. Good luck. At least you have the TPIC. Many don't.

Advice on direction
 

So I've been trying for SWA for a couple years, but really drilled them down as my numero uno a year ago and am curious what course may increase my chances. I meet and exceed all of the mins. I have a perfectly clean record, both aviation and personal. I have a bachelor's outside of aviation. I also went to the September 2016 open house and it went just fine. All of my flight time is civilian time flying corporate, no 121 time and just a small handful of 135.
Presently, I'm flying a large cabin corporate jet, both domestic and international, but only logging SIC (PIC Typed but not signing the part 91 docs or flight plan on my legs). Previously, I was a Citation PIC.
I'm in the conundrum of what to do to raise SWA's awareness of me. I'm just shy of 5,000TT so I'm wondering if that's the major issue.
Would I be better off logging more TPIC? I don't fly more than 325 hours per year so it's not building very quickly. I have the option of joining the 135 world as a Citation PIC and would certainly fly more than I am currently, but I'm not sure if that's the right missing piece. There's not much of a chance to upgrade at the current place for a number of years hence the thought of working the tail off for a few years at 135.
Any thoughts on the civilian picture for SWA hiring? Thanks for any thoughts!

Just spoke to an interviewer yesterday here in Dallas about this. They don't care about busts as long as they have been overcome and you own up. Like not at all.
Keep trucking man. Hiring 780 this year (training center capacity) and allegedly more next year. The lady I talked to said to apply to every rec and update monthly. That will give you your best chance.

Make sure you update regularly.

Have your resume looked at by someone who knows what to look for as far as formatting or grammar.

Are you a check airman?
Are you a manager of anything?

Are you a community volunteer?

Letters of recommendation uploaded?

Any internals?

737 type?

Thanks for the reply!

I update religiously. I have April's flights saved in there already. I keep hoping there's something obviously wrong in there, but everything looks good!

I've had some friends look over the apps and credentials and I've made every sentence parallel, addresses and phone numbers formatted exactly the same, and dotted all i's and crossed all t's. No pay-service yet. I'm not opposed if it's a solid boost.

No check airman as we don't do that at our 91 shop unfortunately. No history of that, either. Our "standards" rides all are accomplished by our CP, which will, in all likelihood, never be me. Our CP will be around for awhile. Next in line after him is already written on the wall, too.

Manager of...hmmmm.... wife and kids? That's a full time job 'round these parts. :) Former aircraft manager but not for a 10+ pilot company. I have a couple internal positions with my company, all of which are listed on my resume but don't fit any checkboxes on SWA.

As for volunteering, what I've done is listed. It's not years of experience but it's something!

Internals, unfortunately not. Almost every pilot I'm buddies with are corporate, regional or other major/LCC. So I have yet to meet a SWA person. That's the downside of not having done aviation in college. Those contacts are flying desks these days.

Presently 3 types, none of which start with a B or a 7.

The "no failures" boxes are checked but there's not a lot else I'll be able to check with my current company. I know - it's a tough sell. But man o man am I a fungi.

Thanks for checking up on that! Puts my mind at ease in a big way.

Sounds like you and I are in more or less the same boat.

NINE YEARS at a fractional where the fleet I was hired into had the same two standards dudes/LCA's and the same three sim instructors for the whole time I was there, and no chance to change fleets, either. I was a P2P rep for my union, so I threw that in there thinking it might show I at least tried.

New job: Part 135, but all the Standards/Line Check guys are based in the city where the company is headquartered, so no luck there, either.

I do have some aviation management experience and Part 135 Chief Pilot experience, but it was all for small companies that don't quite rise to the level of box-checking.

Four year degree from a name university: Si.
Two check ride busts back in my ab initio days
Two bizjet types
Cub scout Den Leader for the past three years
Yard of the Month Winner, Spring 2015

Come on Southwest, call me in!

Dang! You got Yard of the Month 2015Q2? I knew I'd have to step it up somewhere. Sigh. Yup - it's frustrating to try to find boxes to check that you just can't quite justify checking. Soon, my friend. Soon.

Recency of experience-- 2 years in the past 5 years is listed as a requirement. Do they pretty much stick to it? B737 Typed here with 121 PIC on type. Flown the -200/700/800/900ER. Just don't meet the 2/5 requirement.

I wish I could unlock the secret.

10k+ TT
7k 121
8k+ jet
6k+ TPic
6 types
Bachelors w/ honors
0 busts or fails
0 incidents/accidents
0 blimishes
Been applying for 10 yrs + job fairs = 0 interviews

Fingers still crossed ::D


I think the 0 check airman/instructor has hurt me :(

Sounds almost exactly like me, same time, same 10 plus years, rarely missing a window. Except I have blimishes..... And I got the interview invite last week. I think the secret is updating your app exactly as posted here on another thread. Its a computer scoring you, not a reasonable human being. Make everything add up nicely. Put date avail +3 months, make sure there are absolutely no breaks in dates in employment history or addresses. Exact flight times. Go over every section very very carefully and make sure there is nothing misinterpreted. Maybe have another set of eyes or two go over it.

Thanks Bushmaster. I'll follow your advice. When you say date avail +3 months, do you mean if I am available now to still put it 3 months out (jul 17) ?

Congrats on the invite!!!!

I had blemishes and it only took 6 years after my 737 type-ride to get the call. No idea what finally triggered the change, but I had started weekly updates 2 months prior. As for availability, I think I had always had it set to next month. That may or may not make a difference, but it will at least give you an additional reason to update your app. That and after every few flights, add on a few hours. That's what I was doing those last several updates. I did not have the check airman box checked either.

I recently interviewed.
12K TT
5K TPIC, most of that MD-80
Pt 91/135/121
Bunch of types including 737
Check Airman for 5 years

Was not hired. Only 2 out of 8 were hired in my group.
7/8 had the 73 type
Most guys were 40 yrs old plus with high time. (10k TT+)

They're obviously still extremely selective.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Hopefully there are better things ahead for you.


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Me too, especially given the fact that there are FAR less qualified indivuals getting hired. What a load of horse____ :rolleyes:

Is that broken record still playing? Move on Whack.
Unlike you, most pilots here recognize the huge contribution that both military and civilian sourced aviators bring to the table.

Who is getting hired that is far less qualified?

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Well played, Sir, well played.

Still waiting for a reply Whack.....

2 out of 8 hired?! Holy buckets batman! At those odds they would need to do over 6,000 interviews this year to meet the stated hiring goals! Do we think that was just a rough patch or is this the new M.O. going forward?