Transition drop pay question
 

I've never dealt with the issue so I'm curious how the pay works if you picked up a JM trip on days that were dropped for transition conflict.

Is the TX pay tied to the specific days dropped or is it a monthly credit? In other words would you be working for free since you're already receiving the TX credit?

I believe it would be the same as carry in from the month prior with a conflict. Essentially working for free until original line value was reached.

Working a JRM on days marked TX2 (transition drop) in effect means you're working for triple time.

If you have a carry in line and have it dropped for transition then the math changes (you have to break out that convoluted formula) but if you're working a pure transition drop, you get paid both for the drop and anything you fly over it, including JRM.

I had 6 days at the end of August and 4 at the beginning of September so the 4 day in September got TX2-ed. Had to drop the latter of my August trips for life stuff but don't have anything specific to do 9/1-9/4 and I've been called about JMs 4 times in the past 36 hours. I could really use some 200% but I'm burned out from doing everyone else's job as well as my own this last trip so working for free or even straight pay isn't an attractive option.

You wouldn't be working for free. You'd be making triple pay with those JRMs, in effect.

TX2 gets paid at whatever credit the trip was worth. Your monthly Block time dropped but your credit remains the same.

Any flying you do on top of that TX2 gets paid on top of your already existing credit.

If you have a 72 hour hard line (block and credit are the same) and you TX2 an 18 hour 4 day, your schedule would read 72 hours credit, 54 hours block.

Let's just say then they offer you the exact same trip only now at JRM rates (it happens) this 18 hour 4 day now becomes a 36 hour (credit) 18 hour (block) which goes on top of your already existing credit of 72/54.

So at the end of the day your schedule would read 108 hours credit, 72 hours block.

I'm still amazed at how many relatively senior Captains I've flown with who've been here 15+ years who didn't understand how this works. "Been here 18 years and I never broke 100 hours credit!"

Thanks gringo, the explanation is much appreciated!

My financial situation right now is a smoking pile of rubble so for as much as it might anger some people I have to find a way to get out from under it.

That's all extra Credit above and beyond. Take advantage of the situation.

25.J.2

Any pilot who is junior assigned will be paid for such junior assignment over and above his monthly guarantee, at 200 percent of his trip pay credit, in accordance with Section 4.C or 4.D. With Crew Scheduling’s concurrence, he may be restored an equal number of days off.

No worries, we need triple pay to basically be paid like a legacy pilot (when you include their DC & PS plans)

Ain't that the truth? I just told a friend of mine a few days ago that I'd expect at least a 50% pay raise but then I went and did the math and realized that that rate would still be "industry lagging"...

Depressing to say the least.

Only thing more depressing is when they cancel orders because they cant staff them...........

Anyway, DELTA is having a meet & greet October 20&21. 1200 slots available

40+ minutes on hold waiting for scheduling to discuss picking up an open time trip only to end up with voicemail...


Dear Spirit management,

^^^THIS is why people don't help.^^^

Love,

Your favorite Low-Tier Bus drivers.


Right now F'n bankruptcy would seem preferable to trying to make a living on Spirit wages.

Tickets still available? I'd love to make spirit a career stop but they obviously don't want it to be and the NMB hasn't quite come around to the idea yet so I guess it's time to take my services elsewhere. I will NEVER ratify anything less than industry standard compensation for an industry standard job. NEVER!

Stall all you want spirit. Our resolve is stronger than ever and we will either get hired out of this pile or wait for the NMB to release us however long that takes. Of course you could actually come to the table with industry standard this week as we have proposed (the whole thing) and we can get started on making this airline amazing. My guess is you would rather watch it slowly burn just to spite us. Smart.

^^^What he said.^^^

NOT!! It's more like triple time.

Scheduling was desperate enough to call me back despite the less than polite voicemail I left them so I'll now be crediting 53:41 over the next 5 days.

Financial crisis averted, at least for another month.

Thanks for the info everyone!

You've been talking about taking your services elsewhere for years now. Hope you know no one takes your internet rhetoric seriously. You're in for the long haul no matter what happens.

Meh, Thats not true. Hes def is not the type to talk and not execute. I certainly dont fault anyone for hanging out until we get a T/A though.


And Bob said we'll have one next week so just remain patient err'body

The Southwest tickets for the Sept 30 meet and greet went bye-bye in a heartbeat and a half.

Can we even fill classes?

Interviewing and hiring on the spot at the ACY meet n greet today.

I can't tell you how many times I've called them back after a missed call for JRM to find out I'm #6 in line so I hang up.

After the summer meltdown of 2015, their big fix was to get the new phone menu that allows you to select current day vs next day, hotel issues vs other issues etc. Hey management: I hope you know that nobody selects the "next day" option because all the current day callers just hop in front of you. You could literally be on hold indefinitely. Once again our management has spent money on a stupid idea that doesn't work. I am so sick of hearing "please listen closely as the menu has recently changed", when it hasn't changed in over 2 years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The lack of staffing and experience (mostly because of turnover) in crew scheduling is the reason for every meltdown this company has experienced. It is so obvious yet it hasn't been fixed. Things like this scare me the most about this company.

They also went from 15 Crew Schedulers to 45 after that meltdown. But who knows how many they retain or how much they've grown that number along with the airline.

Closer to "60" I've heard, but regardless they still suck.

45 was a Direct quote from Carol shortly after the meltdown, but maybe they're up to 60 since then.

I chose the "current day" option last night and still went backwards in the queue while i was on hold.


In their defense I'm pretty sure that even with that many schedulers they still only have 2 on duty at a time, they rotate every 30 minutes, and each shift change takes 15 minutes to complete.

In defense of the schedulers, it's really not their fault. A recent class of about 20 had 1, yes 1, new hire with previous airline scheduling experience. Everyone else was off the street with literally zero airline experience. I'm talking guys coming over from Verizon and Sprint stores. Most of the schedulers sincerely try to do a good job, but the hours are long, the office can get kind of high-schoolish and turnover is high.

Furthermore, not only do they have to schedule the pilots, but they're also scheduling the flight attendants as well.

Blame the system that put these people in this position in the first place. Most of them will eventually learn, but it's truly a "baptism by fire" over there in Miramar.

These guys are simply overworked, under paid and waaaay under trained.

Yeah, that came out wrong. I get along with all those that I interact with and know they get it from both sides. I do blame the system and not specifically them for sure.

What do you mean by doing everyone else's job?

Calling for Fuel
Calling for Paperwork
Calling scheduling asking where x,y,z crewmember is
Calling transportation because no one scheduled it.
Calling hotel connections because the hotel you got dropped off at has no reservation.
Calling Payroll because they shorted you pay.
Calling training because you dequaled

You know, the usual stuff lol (at least im assuming thats what he meant).

I don't know if "suck" is the right word. We all suck when we are new to something. They just need to staff adequately and pay to retain them. Most all of my interactions with scheduling have been pleasant.

This ^^^, most of the schedulers I have had to deal with have been very nice ( trust me It was not this way at my regional I came from, they were actually hostile there at some points). They have a job to do here, so blame the system not the the scheduler.

Absolutely. Always pleasant and I am the same to them. If you think something is incorrect just politely ask for a supervisor. If they still don't see it your way contact the ALPA scheduling committee to verify you are correct and then follow up with the chief pilot. If he doesn't solve it file your NCC. I have no problems with the schedulers here. They don't talk to you like they are your boss like at regional airlines. They speak like they would if you called the United or delta crew scheduling. As far as hotels and transportation not being booked it's mostly a problem for reserves and unfortunately has been outsourced to hotel connections which has proven incompetent on the reg. If you wait on the curb on hold forever for it all to get sorted out with hotel connections that's your own fault.

We don't need to hire with Gojet flow. You read Ryan's email. New hires need to understand and believe in the ULCC model. Basically saying come here to work for less and hopefully make it a career stop.

Let's see what Frontier gets for interim pay from arbitration. 43 more days and we will be lowest paid pilots in the country!! But at least we are the Best sh1ttiest airline in America! :D

From my limited experience, (Mostly a lineholder) they have been nothing but friendly to me. They seem like genuinely nice people just trying to do the best with the situation that gets shoved down their throat via firehose every single day.

It's not their fault we are understaffed. On pretty much a daily basis.

Day 1:
-had to set up my own transportation to the hotel
-spent almost an hour on the phone at 1am because I had no hotel reservation

Day 2:
-whole day cancelled by noon, not notified
-rescheduled to fly out that day at 5pm, overnight, do 2 offline DHs to get back to where i was originally overnighting, then do my 2 scheduled legs. Not notified.
-get to hotel that night, again no reservation.

Day 3:
-no transportation from hotel to the airport set up and by the time anyone had the time to pay attention to my predicament I had missed my DH flight. Too bad, so sad...

This is just a microcosm of the experience ive had over the past 3 months. The ball seems to be dropped on a fairly regular basis by the people who are (supposedly) responsible for supporting us while we're at work. At some point you get tired of paying the price for the ineptitude of others so you decide to just sit back and watch the wheels fall off...

Somwhat do you suggest we do when we have no transportation and/or hotel? How does that become our fault?

Hence post #26;)

Same for you, #26.

Again, #26. :rolleyes:

It's not your fault. It's your fault if you stand on the curb for an hour.

If you have no transportation 30 minutes after block in take your own and expense it. If you have no hotel reservation get a room at whatever it costs and expense it. I would pick the normal overnight hotel if they have a room. If they do not pick any hotel you like. You will get paid back.

If you have no transportation to the airport do what you like but I generally wait for them to sort it out.

Personally, I'd go eat, go to gym, whatever. When they figure it out, I'll go to my room. Then I'll fill out my grievances. Took 3 hours to figure out, I'm considering that as part of my on duty time. Will ask for 3 hours of flight pay. 10 hour layover? Guess there will be a delay tomorrow.
It is not my job to book hotel rooms. It is not my job to find transportation. It IS my job to move the jet from point A to point B is a safe timely fashion. Does it suck waiting on a room? Absolutely. I Will will not pay for it expecting to be reimbursed.