We Got a T/A!!
 

Let the fun begin!

gonna be an interesting Few weeks! the terd crowd, the dooms dayers, the delta plus 1% crowd, are gonna need some heartburn meds the next 30 days.. But if the details aren't total garbage, I'm looking forward to a nice raise on March 1.. Im even betting the sun rises that day too

I’m looking forward to the earnings call on the 6th and their 2018 guidance so see how much this package will tentatively affect their earnings.

Has it been sent out. I haven’t received anything yet

The email stated it would be made available by the end of the week.

Good call! Will be very interesting how they choose their words lol. (Which they usually are very Low tier at) lol

Investors will appreciate some labor peace.. however, adding lets say $90,000 per pilot (bonus, salary, LTD premiums, social security) for 1800 pilots is $162 million. or roughly 61% of ALL of 2016s yearly profits..Or roughly 17% of the total current cash on hand.. don't be surprised if earnings takes a huge hit. Revenues will have to rise. The tax cut offsets some, but its just a dent compared to the cost of the contract. Thats the cost of doing business these days. CASM will greatly increase .. The stock could be volatile in the short term

It's too bad, but profit sharing, even a small token percent, would go a long way towards employees making the company work more efficiently. 3-5% gains in productivity and efficiency wouldn't be unsurprising if the employees had a dog in the fight. As it is we're being treated like outside contract workers, no incentives whatsoever to help out the company.

Plus, with the mediation board saying no matter how great we make the company we'll be held to an arbitrary pay raise percentage, there is certainly an arbitrary level of employee give-a-shxt associated with that. Spirit can't grow and thrive without employee buy-in, and a bottom tier contract with no profit sharing (while corp mgt rakes in the cash themselves) is not the way to get any sort of employee buy-in.

They lost any sort of "Employee Buy-In" just by the way they've treated these negotiations.

They insulted us verbally. Then they insulted us through action by no-showing negotiations. Then they sued us. And then they managed our expectations down through extreme lowballing that they knew would stall the process.

Are we just supposed to forget all about the past 3 years of gaslighting, which they pulled off in textbook fashion, by the way, and go back to High Fives and Free Smiles?

I was proud to work for Spirit when I was hired. They made me feel like I was a part of something special, like "The Little Airline That Could." They could pay me Delta 777 +1, but it won't make me forget how we were treated the last 3 years.

Damn right! 👏

There most likely will never be a better negotiating environment than this in your career.

This! Everyone seems to have forgotten how crappy we were treated once they dangle a few dollars at us and don’t forget the “quid”


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If you've only been treated poorly by management here for 3 years, you've only been here 3 years.

How long are you planning on staying at NK?

With the new tax bill I’ll be surprised if they take any hit at all from this contract!!


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I gues ALPA has made up everyone's mind to vote for this TA. If you read the email about midway thru it says we all should vote to approve this TA. Why even read it or go to a roadshow, ALPA knows best and has made your decision for you. They also told us to stop wearing the RED lanyards, does this mean we should go back to wearing the GREEN "Low Tier" ones since were about to sign a LOW TIER TA. Great.

Lol this obviously must be your first time voting on a TA. This is how it works every time my friend, and not just at Spirit.

Read it again, that’s not how it was worded.

You dont put in all company savings, just costs.

Relevance? If he has vote, it's none of your business.

Aside from pride and perceived self worth, if you want to convince people, show them the calculations you're basing your vote on.

We managed to add (and give away work rules) 56 million or roughly 5000 per YEAR per pilot over the last 6 months. At my seniority level and under the current TA(bullet points), I'll be losing 6000 a MONTH. Not only money but risking potential scope and LTD (should they be acceptable).

So, how much do you think we can realistically achieve?

Don't forget to acknowledge the risks associated. You have to paint the whole picture if you want people to follow.

If I can stay healthy god willing.. I’m staying until they shoot the water canons over my nose on my last day.. about $6.5 million in career earnings from now best I figure..anything can happen in this biz, but you wanna hear something really crazy??? I’m
happy! And enjoy this job.... this isn’t the first or last contract shenanigans I’ll see or have seen.. regardless the outcome, I’m
Happy and this job doesn’t suck :)

Please please dont use facts and common sense. They have no place here!!! Just fear and conspiracy only!!!!!


Also, that comment goes for the yes voters too. Don’t vote yes out of fear of the unknown etc, vote yes because you have read the T/A and its acceptable to you and your family

No scope no vote!

I made a thread for each section so when the language is released we can all dissect the crude out of this thing section by section. Pros and cons are opinion based obviously but as long as we use facts from the ta to back up those opinions I think we can have a great organized discussion to help us all make an educated vote along with attending road shows

How much coffee did you have this morning?!

Only two cups.

That's exactly how I feel as well, agree 100%.

That is exactly how management wants you to vote.
Based on how much you are potentially losing/month, not how much you can gain in three months.
I'm losing a lot as well, but am willing to wager and make it up in the next 5 -7 years, while retaining some of our QOL.
If that's all we can achieve in the best ever negotiating environment, then we get what we deserve.
Unfortunately this is not my first TA, every time one was voted down,
an improved one was signed within a few months, when airlines were not nearly as profitable as presently.
Management is bluffing!
We only stand to GAIN by voting NO.

ABSOLUTELY
Do not forget that while voting, and know who you are dealing with!
Now we are about to offer those same folks another GIFT.
That would be pathetic, like an abused person that goes back for more.
Vote accordingly to make it known how much you do not appreciate their "tactics"

Not to mention the big bump their getting from the tax reform!!!!


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They're

.....

I'll bet you a paycheck you've never been in this position, where you're this far behind and nearing a point where the potential to get stuck under a pile such as this, for another couple of years, existed.

Please don't reference SWA or DAL. This is NOT the same thing! They were at or near to the top when turning down their TA's. We are not.

I'll listen, no generalities, what company were you at that a 70k a year raise, with (possibly) IS scope and LTD were on the line and you gave it up for a guarantee of more in just a couple of months?

And what was that amount you added in that 6 months? 10? 20? 30k a year? Because in the last 6 months we only added 5XXX a YEAR per pilot. Numbers don't lie.

We're listening... Again you've made statements, not of fact but generalities. Many, myself included, want to vote this down, but there have to be specifics more than from an anonymous soul on APC making guarantees that are probably coming from the mouth of Matt.

Sorry to be confrontational, but back your posts up with facts that are verifiable.

I'm aware. I've been served the sandwich by Alpa and Luby personally. I'll be giving more credence to what's in the 31 threads on APC. Fortunately I don't have to pay to use it. :D

I am trying to figure out how you think we will have a better offer in 3 months? I am not saying vote yes or no, but altleast realize that if this gets shot down it could be a year or so before we see another TA.
I have heard that if this gets shot down that the NC and some of the MEC are stepping down ( rumors of course, but not my first TA either, and the others that got shot down this is what happened.) If this happens we won’t even have a NC in place in 3 months. My suggestion is vote No or Yes on the facts of the TA, not that you think a better deal is only 90 days a way. Be ready to live with a No vote for a while.

Would those rumored to be stepping down happen to be named in the TRO?

Man I don’t know those details I was told that the MEC and NC are supporting this TA 100 percent, and if it doesn’t get voted in they know they have lost all their bargaining power and we need new peeps to have any leverage ( like I said all rumors).

I appreciate the tone of this conversation and the open minded attitude.
There are no guarantees, it is my personal experience, history and my view that this company cannot afford to wait, they need a contract before we do.
This is a great deal for them, that's why they are rushing.
We are giving up a lot, which will be gone forever.
There is much room for improvement and because of where I am in my career, I'm not will to settle due to fear, but rather be patient and fight hard for the best possible outcome.
Unless radical improvements were made during final drafting, this is FAR from it, in my humble opinion.
Are we still voting without a PBS LOA?
Maybe the NC will change my view, but till the road shows, I'm a firm NO.
I do believe the NC tried their best and thank them for their efforts.

Fair enough. You're betting it could be better, I just can't leave my decision to chance, sorry.

I'm looking forward to the road shows to ask questions, get answers and the breakdown of sections here.

🍻

I’d be willing to live for a little while longer to get quality scope as opposed to not having it for 8 years and watching our growth get outsourced in the mean time while we waite for the next amendable date. Why is this a five year contract again?

I agree with you on that. Like I said I won’t decide which way I will vote without seeing the TA. I just don’t want guys to get false hope that if we shoot this down we will be back at the table immediately.