Aye or Nay??
 

Can’t believe it hasn’t been posted yet....

Can someone sticky this to the top...

Not an anonymous poll

I did that intentionally.

Also, I haven’t ‘voted’ yet as I’m still waiting on the roadshow. That said, from the AIP bullet points, I was leaning yes. Now, leaning no...

Who cares?

Hahahh, half the No Voters dont even fly for spirit haha. Thats awesome lol

How can you know or assume that?
This is a hard NO for me, and everyone else I talked to.
$5000 LTD!
No solid scope
9 day vacation (20 currently)
Rescheduling!...
No RES drops
Vague operational necessity language

Extremely company friendly TA geared towards reducing staffing and eliminating QOL.
In exchange for JetBlue rates and NO full retro.

Much worse than expected, depressing and embarrassing...
Filling apps if this passes.

LTD is a max of 15k, not 5k (with buy up).

Vacation is more complicated than that. 9 is the minimum. You know, where it used to be 7, lol.

Rescheduling is being BLOWN out of proportion.

No RSV drops is garbage and Scope is what Inexpected. SWA would have been golden

Vote yes, everyones QOL goes down the sh|tter

I am a low to middle seniority CA and after slide, can easily get 20-21 days off while using only 7 VAC days.
No chance of that anymore, my 7 day VAC is worthless.
If I have to PAY to get above $5K in LTD it's NOT a benefit, as I'm paying for it!
You may like being a slave to CS, not me, Rescheduling is a huge concession!

I'm hearing more yes than no, but the yes people are not thrilled but are gaining 50-70% raises on average. I think section 25 is being called doomsday when it is not. The yes people are being silent on here, just like Trump voters. Guess who won?

Here you are. :D
If Trump supporters were embarrassed to admit it, there may have been a reason for it.
This could only pass, if folks do not read it and go for the $$ while applying elsewhere.

As an F9 guy a lot of us were jealous after we heard about the aip, but after seeing that slap in the face TA we all hope you guys can hold the line and get the TA you deserve. Good luck!

Thanks, best of luck to you too.
This will show who our pilot group really is.

Ask one of the many new junior Envoy CAs about obscure details buried in a contract being blown out of proportion. I agree with a lot of these “No” guys. Stay strong and make your airline a place worth coming to/staying.

Yeah you just have to “buy up the LTD” so you can get it to industry standard. There is no limit on what the company can charge for that “Buy up” either. Wonder how much more that’s gonna cost us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a yes vote. I'm not proud of this TA, but I never expected to be. This TA gets me/us:

1) More money (though nothing to brag about)

2) Real LTD compared to what we have

3) A DC retirement

4) Intact healthcare which was already pretty good

5) Maintains some work rules like red/green

6) Some scope improvements though not airtight like SWA

I'm not going to vote No because this group hasn't shown unity, barely votes in union elections, rarely volunteers to do anything that isn't self serving and shows no sign of changing. I'm not going to risk these gains so the rest of you can cry about section 25. I agree that losing reserve drops is bad but I'm going to lock in gains and move on. I have little to no confidence that this pilot group can do any better. Brutally honest.

Yeah really, there is no fng Unity. Guys bending over backwards for MUP, saving the day at all costs and now all of a sudden you feel disrespected?


Hypocrisy at its finest

I think the DFWLEC guy got it right.

I will probably vote Yes

I wanted to believe Juri when he said this place would be "the next Southwest", but unfortunately that's just not gonna happen. This isn't a legacy level contract because Spirit isn't a top tier carrier, however bad we may want it to be. This isn't a secret. The mediator, our management, other pilots, our passengers, and even our friends and family all know this. That's no reflection on us as individuals or pilots, but the reality of this company's position in the airline industry. Are we really that surprised that we didn't get a cut and paste of Delta's contract?

I understand the argument that we fly the same aircraft on the same routes and we tried that line, unfortunately no one cared.

Section 25 is terrible.
No reserve drops is a serious loss as well.

However, my biggest priorities in this negotiation were improved scope, reasonable ltd, compensation, and dc retirement. None of this stuff is industry leading, but it's all in this deal.

We can drag this out and keep trying to convince everyone we are United, or take a nice raise now along with improved benefits and move on. If we vote no, I don't see us getting back the monetary difference no matter how long a new offer takes.

If this passes, yes we are going to take a beating during irops but we will be making good money at the same time. At the end of the day I work here for pay, not for the great overnights. And no matter how good a contract we get, not all the Delta pilots are going to nod at you in the hallway.

I will vote what is best for my family, and will respect everyone else whatever they decide.

Problem is you’re not even getting the pay. Jetblue not Delta makes this now with better work rules in some cases and profit sharing. They’re negotiating raises and work rule improvements (and scope I hope). You will be stuck with this for 8+ years. I was actually ready to accept that for rock solid scope to insure I’ll have a job. We didn’t even get that. You may not think you’re Delta (I do) but you don’t even think you’re as deserving as Jetblue (we could’ve negotiated a me too and didn’t). Sad

We already take a beating during irops. Ask those guys stuck for 5/6 days at the hotel when Harvey hit. I love waiting 3/4 even 5 hours for hotel connections to get me a room without Pay! What did y’all think we’d get? Our amazing work rules with United plus 1 pay?

Reserve drops? Really? Reserve drops are the sole reason the red green system gets effed and turns red and stops normal line holders from being able to drop. Sorry that hurts the guys that manipulate the system to credit their 140 hours months...!

Rescheduling- So after they exhaust the reserves, and the X/Y list you might get rescheduled with pay? That may happen once or twice a year!!

Yeah it sucks we didn’t get min day, 16%DC right off the bat, SWA scope, redeye overrides, and making every intl city intl override Pay... We have been playing high school ball against guys in the MLB. This TA brings us up to the minors, while earning a respectable income and retirement. If you don’t like it, then move up to the majors. The NC tried the Hail Mary and the bs NMB intercepted and caused the NC to come up a tad short. Take a deep breath, relax and make yourself a pros/cons list. Then vote based on what’s important to you.

Please don't assume that everyone that drops reserve days credits 140 a month. I drop reserve and end up averaging far below 72 to work around my wife's schedule and kids birthdays etc... Like I've said before not being able to drop reserve days is a no go for me, I've been on reserve over a year and it looks like it will still be a while, being able to drop reserve days is far more important to me then a shiny bonus they are throwing at me (or anything else)

Southwest didn’t go from zero to hero in one TA it takes steps and this TA is a step in the right direction.

In many sections.... It is a step in the wrong direction. You give up work rules, they never come back. Huge huge concessions in this thing.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Love when people say this. The answer is no, I expected to not have section 25 blown up and get maybe united minus 20. Something in between, not one extreme or the other.

Well of course, how the F——- did you expect to get higher pay?, LTD & DC.

You think the company that filed a TRO against us is just going to pay us more just because?

They’ve had their scope a long long time so in subsequent negotiations they could build on their contract knowing they had a job to protect

This right here. I am a commuter and drop reserve days so that I am not away from my family for 7 or 8 days at a time with only 2 days off in between commutes, and I don't always drop because I can't always afford to. I can count on one hand the JRM assignments I've accepted in the almost 4 years I have been here and would need an abacus to keep track of the amount of phone calls from screw scheduling I've left unanswered. More power to the 140 hour credit pilots (as long as they have earned that credit within the confines of the current contract), but for those of us that use the QOL rules to actually improve the quality of our family and personal lives and not just our bank accounts, this TA seems like a huge loser.

I am not a wealthy man, nor do I have a savings account to speak of, and because of circumstances in my career path I have only just begun a 401k investment account. It is certainly attractive to me to have the company deposit funds directly into that account. It would also be a huge gain to drop a $30,000 deposit into my kids college savings account. And the bi-weekly check will be a nice improvement over my current payroll. But, the biggest advantage I see to my current quality of life is knowing exactly what my schedule is for the entire month, being able to adjust that schedule to meet family and personal requirements, having the ability to plan my work schedule around my life events and not the other way around, and most importantly coming home after assignments and being able to take off my [figurative] work hat and forget about Spirit and not worry about work in general until my next assignment begins. I am not quite sure that working under this TA will allow me these benefits. It is not just about money!

I'm not sure why you mention Southwest and Delta, when we're barely approaching Jetblue in some areas. And Jetblue will bypass us under their first contract and I'm betting Alaska too. It p*sses me off, but it's deserved when your willing to hold your head high and say 'No More!'

We have made some substantial gains, but it's coming at a disproportionate cost.

Man O man I really hope this online poll is representative of what the group is feeling.

I converted one college to a No vote, thankfully. He kept fixating on the pay rates. People are blinded by $$$.

You converted a university eh?

How do you figure Jetblue makes this now? Our TA has higher rates than what I can see on APC posted for JB. Especially when you include the 321 override.

As far a negotiating a me too clause, any me too clause is highly unlikely to be agreed upon (nonstarter from management) because it makes their cost increase an unlimited risk. United is certainly the exception to the norm. As has been said, you can negotiate for anything but you need to get them to agree to it, thats the hard part.

Of course we all WANT more but it doesnt matter what we want, reality is what it is. Denying reality will get us nowhere. Nobody wants to say this during negotiations. We have to puff ourselves up for the fight and at least act like we are in a position of power. That time is gone and passed. Now we need to do what is best for us considering where we are now.

Ask anyone who came from a regional (myself included) how they were abused by IROP, SWAP, whatever it was called. Ask how a storm in Newark allowed them to hold everyone in Houston at the airport for 4 hours after release.

That is Contract abuse at its finest.

Hopefully enough of our pilot group has had experience with this in the past and can recognize this new language for what it is... essentially a blank check for the company.

That 321 override will be diluted as we add more 320's or whatever else the company plans on ordering in the future. It's based on block hour ratio and we're done getting 321's by the end of March.

The money is just one of the poor aspects. My no is based on scope and that’s it. It’s certainly better than current but still ripe for exploitation and I was to renegotiate it now not later. Simple as that

Look at all the longevity rates for FO and Capt. most of our TAs are better but a few Jetblue current rates are better, either way it’s very similar, except in the top longevities on captain side. Then factor in Jetblue has profit sharing and better rigs that we don’t get until PBS, plus redeye overide.

F9 guy here. We are really behind you guys and gals here at Spirit the treatment we all receive from our employers is probably very similar. Who knows we may even be married in the future? Anyone know which airlines went to PBS during a time that they weren’t having to give concessions? Ie bankruptcy or recession or terror related? Not trying to rain on anyone here at NK but if you plan on trying to make a career out of Spirit I would think you would vote No. if you are bailing as soon as possible I can see you building your bank account with a Yes and saying not really my problem. However if somehow you were stuck at Spirit would you be just as happy voting yes? I get the risks in a No I truly do, (we have a similar decision to make coming up also... no idea when though) but with all the Scheduling mess, and scope language holes, (look at the forking we are getting already with Volaris) if I were an FO there I would know that a yes just makes my FO tenure stretch even farther down the road. As a CA you might be far enough along the seniority list that starting over would just not pay off either and you just sold your Scheduling flexibility away for your entire career. If you were able to retain say 3/4 of your work rules those rates may have been a good deal, but with weak protections and crappy regional Scheduling rules maybe a No vote although costing you bucks now might be worth it to have a work life balance that you and your family will appreciate the remainder of your career.

If I have offended anyone that was never my intention. The decisions you make today may affect the rest of your career.

I’m not in favor of the TA but we did say we would agree to pbs to get a deal done.

If any FO wants to take a little money and leave I hope they would think about those of us that are probably staying and realize that call to leave may never actually come for them. Selling your soul never makes sense

If I were Spirit management
How happy I would be
If this TA got voted down
And extended a year or three.

predicktion-----reverse the yes/no percentages and that will the vote outcome