Look, I get that the F/As have a “me too clause” but would giving them “the face of the airline” a few grand in profit sharing be so bad? Mgmt played them brilliantly, they made the F/As give up something for a “Me too” clause that mgmt knew they would throw in our faces come negotiations. The icing on the cake for mgmt? The Pilots blaming the F/As for lack of PS, lol.

It ISNT THE F/As keeping us from Profit sharing, its MANAGEMENT

You believe the "Me too clause" doesn't add to their resistance to profit sharing?? Come on. I believe its a big reason and perhaps why management agreed to it in their contract. It makes it much more expensive (difficult) for us to get it

Only under 1.E which is aquisition of said carrier and keeping them separate.

Does not apply to CPAs that ive been explained so far

Sorry didn’t mean to insinuate that you didn’t.

No worries at all. Delta receives their profit sharing checks today I believe. Happy Valentines Day to those guys, huh?

Thing is I(we) don’t negotiate for the FAs. Call it something else, find a work around to the me too. Let the FAs sue the company over it. They want to piggy back on us, let them figure it out.

And even if they got it too, it can’t be that much money considering the pennies they make anyway.

Exactly. I thought a performance bonus would do it but I have heard there isn't much we can do to get around it. Of course I don't know how its written or the legalities of it...

There isn't much we can do? We could vote NO and demand it.

i don't understand, contract 2010 says if other employee groups gets profit sharing/bonus we get the same thing. how come we didn't get included in profit sharing?

What other labor groups have it? They get zero, so "Me Too" gets us zero.

Nobody got profit sharing that I’m aware of

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was trying to say management agreed to the FAs "me too clause" because it would make it much more difficult (cost more negotiating capital) for the pilots to obtain it come negotiation time. Does that make sense?

Go for it. Vote no if you like

It not only makes sense, it was brilliant. Almost like when they lied about the IPO in 2010.

I agree. It was very smart but, of course, sucks for us

oh i forgot, they call it performance bonuses...it's only for employees whom are responsible for performance....my bad, performance and profit both start with a P

Should the " face of an airline " get a chunk of profit? Yes they should but most of them don't give a crap about service and choose to give it as rarely as possible. I don't blame the FA's for the fact that we will never have PS. Management played them in the forehand and played us in the backhand. As smart and important as we as pilots want to think we are, management will beat us every day in every event we take part in. They're pieces of Sht but they don't get paid millions of dollars per year because their stupid, no matter how much we want to believe that.

Are you a LAS CA? First name start with D? Just saying that's the only person at Spirit who in person who seems to be as angry as you are everyday.

negative, keep guessing though, be careful about your financial well being calling people out by name thou....there's still hundreds of pilots who were screwed over by alpa on this subject. i assure u there are several persons still pis_sed about it.....granted not the majority since the majority here have been hired post contract 2010/IPO

I'm sorry but if you feel like you got hosed by ALPA in 2010 by being awarded "OK" pay at the time ( recession ) and also industry destroying work rules I don't know how you will ever be satisfied. I think if you were offered $400 per hour with a 10 hour min day you would still have a problem with it. Given the landscape of the times I would totally understand if you call the current TA a piece of crap, but 2010? I imagine if furloughed do to issues in the economy you would cry to keep your job like snot nosed 6 year old. Oh wait....... burn this POS to the ground right? Something tells me you have always been the most ungrateful glass half empty person in the room your whole life.

ok, so why didn't we get profit sharing in this TA? glass still half full?

I'm not sure I would call the captain pay rates for the first 3 years under CBA 2010 "OK".

Not even stock option. Doesn’t even cost anything.

It does. It costs them negotiating capital for either an eventual TA2 or next round of negotiations (7-8 years from now, if we're lucky). It also makes it clear who's in charge, even though we all know how profit sharing & stock options work, daddy said NO. Period.



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Well we've been demanding stuff for a couple years now.

I think everyone needs to do the math. If we vote this down, a 5 year captain will be losing over $5000/month, and many captains will be around that number if you just use 72 hours/month.

A 2 year f/o will be losing over 2700/month.

No one knows how long it would take for another TA and if there would be any gains or just a few tweaks and/or more trade-offs. We don't know if we'd need new negotiators, or how long the NMB (who is not on our side) will put us on a shelf. Three months? Two years?

One thing I've learned in my career with 2 major layoffs-you take the money when you can, because it may not be there down the road.

This isn't a perfect T/A but we've got a bird in the hand.

Really? Why? At that point we’ll already be into the summer schedule. If they’re having staffing issues, a new TA at that point isn’t gonna solve that problem. Too late at that point.

Besides, there are far too many wh0res willing to cut deals to bail this place out for an extra dollar. We all know that, and most of them are probably NO voters that don’t want their special deals to end. They’re addicted to the gravy. These people get off on knowing they gamed the system.

I guess that is as good as any reason to just roll over and take whatever they give you. You are right. You would lose all that money if you voted no because you wouldn't want to burden the company with forcing them to pay retro for the additional time. You are so nice. Did you know Southwest is making 258 an hour plus 14.2 percent plus a nice 11.3 percent profit sharing check? Huh. They are so lucky they were just given that...

You do know SWA wasn’t doing this back in the 90s when they were trying to grow. ( they did have stock options and profit sharing. They had a better management team that cared). Their pay was at the bottom or close to the bottom of the industry. So you can’t compare Spirit to SWA right now. SWA 700 planes, 9200 pilots, Spirit 115 planes around 2000 pilots. Would I like more, hell ya, but I know this place needs to grow and I believe this is the best we can achieve right now. It’s not worth me to lose the LTD, Scope, DC, and pay raise to wait for who knows how long and who knows for how much more? Maybe it goes the other way and we could actually lose some of these gains, no one knows. You willing to gamble on that?
Plus if you want SWA pay and benefits they are hiring around 750 this year.

Love the SWA comparisons. Did you know SWA CA's made half of what NWA widebody FO's made in the mid 90's?

Dude, will you please do yourself and all of us a massive favor? Engage Art Luby personally via email. Air all of your concerns and possible situations that could hurt us. Everything you're saying on here, say that to him. And, by all means, post the exchange on here for everyone to see ( feel free to de-identify). You may be 100% correct, I don't know. You're so sure about the holes in section 1, challenge the guy that wrote it.

The point is I don't think we'd ever make it up. Being nice, or snarky like your post, doesn't have anything to do with it. It's about what's realistic. Most captains making over $200K/year is a pretty good raise. I'm not "rolling over" but making a decision that I feel is the best one. The ALPA financial analyst, the MEC and the NC feel this is the best deal we can get. I doubt you know better than they do. They showed the graphs with their facts. Do you have facts that show the company can sustain much higher rates and still be profitable and attract investment? The NMB was unwilling to push for more money. So what leverage do we have? We'd still be under the TRO as well.

This TA is a huge improvement in a number of areas. It at least puts us in the ballpark with other carriers instead of the ridiculous pay rates we have now. Voting no means keeping those ridiculous pay rates for possibly a very long time.

He won’t engage Art- he likes to play jailhouse lawyer and be the smartest guy On APC. If he talks with Art, he’ll realize he’s dead wrong on scope and he doesn’t know Sh$t from Shinola.

He must be low on billable hours this month- he said he was going to back off scope and lay low but I see on page 7 he’s running his mouth again dreaming up whackadoodle scope scenarios while twisting his mustache.

Excuses, excuses....

What is realistic is you just don't want to wait any longer. The company has won.

So if the MEC are such experts ask them for the powerball numbers. What they say is as good as gold. They know everything according to you...

Well then I guess you guys should vote yes because then you will be following their path and soon will be just like them! The money will just come in time! Except flying a yellow bus and hated by passengers. Hum...

Ha the NC, MEC and the ALPA lawyers? You mean the people that have all of the factual information? The people that have combed through real numbers? The people at the table w/ the NMB and the company? People that have been working on contracts longer than some have been flying airplanes? Yes, they know more than you, me and Joe Pilot. Much more

Good thing Spirit management has pilots like you to help them through the hard times. It is pretty tough right now. Those corporate tax cuts sure is hitting their pockets, and now they need that low cost pilot contract to be able to afford those darn expensive airplanes that they really want so bad since they are just so shiny jet yellow! Ouuuhhhh Yeah!

The kool aid is strong in this one! :D

So you think I am wrong? Please enlighten me

In all seriousness, I have seen MEC's recommend a TA for vote and then regretted by the pilot group for voting it in. So yes. MEC's are not always right in what they think. They can be wrong. I think your MEC is wrong this time. That is why some TA's get voted down, new members get elected, new TA's get negotiated, then passed when the pilot group thinks they have a fair deal. To say they know best because they know all the numbers and have been around a long time is foolish. I think this is the best time ever to get a TA, and another year is worth the wait. Take it to a strike again if you have too to get what you want including the additional retro.

were the profit predictions we were given pre or post corporate tax reform?