DoesSpirit discriminate against military guys
 

Had a friend interview with Spirit recently. He is a military pilot and a part 121 pilot. He said the interview went great except the head of HR scrutinized him for being on military leave. He said she was very aggressive and annoyed that he would work for his 121 carrier and then go on military leave for a year. He said he explained that it wasn't meant to be for a year but he had been extended for circumstances out of his control and he was about to return to his 121 company. A few days later we was sent an email saying he did not receive the job. He is really bummed because he was really excited to work for Spirit.

I Understand that 121 carriers don't like guys to drop mil leave for extended periods of time, but is HR allowed to ask these questions during the interview? Does this sound like discrimination? Just like HR cannot ask a female if she has ever taken maturity leave or if she is planning on getting pregnant and taking maturity leave.

What do you guys/gals think?

He went to an airline interview while on military leave from another airline... it probably would have Impossible for it not to have been brought up by him while trying to explain what he’s been doing for the last year...

Had several military guys in my interview group two years ago, all were hired.

My sim partner from initial was prior military and he did not have any 121 experience. I doubt the military was the reason he got turned down.

I wasn't asking if they did not hire him because he is military but because he is on military leave from his civilian job and are they allow to scrutinize someone in depth for being on military leave.

So you are looking for a loophole for your "friend" to sue Spirit?

Sorry, as pilots we're only familiar with the best practices of running and building airlines, and the monday morning quaterbacking of those we elect to negotiate for us (because we're too lazy to step up and volunteer or walk in circles ourselves).

You might want to serach the flight attendant forums for HR questions. 🙃

I have been 121 for 10 years with 7 deployments....I was hired. Military Leave was definitely not the issue.

Were you on military leave during the time of your interview? Were you asked questions about military leave during your interview?

Let's be 100% honest here. Pulling the "Guard card" so you don't have to sit reserve is what were talking about. Let's add I'll drop reserve days and use my "Guard Card" on weekends (Or any day) that I'm scheduled to sit reserve. Every airline HR department hates this use. Day one after being furlough at a legacy we had a guy show up and get his new ID and walk upstairs, drop the guard card and jumpseat home. He said I'll go sit at my Guard unit till I don't have to sit reserve. BYE!" This has been going on for a long time and now Airlines have figured it out. Delta says they love the RJ guys. They actually come to work and are plug in play! They don't use the "Card"! So if in fact your buddy showed up at Spirit while on Mill leave and was pressed about his use of Mill leave by HR I'd say they think he's a "Card dropper". That's awful bold to be on Mill leave and go interview. Doesn't sound like the Military really needed this person that bad if he can go interview for another job while on Mill leave. I wouldn't hire card droppers. I'm glad HR put the heat to him. Clearly they saw something they didn't like. If you are in the Reserves and protect this country Amen! If you abuse the system don't be surprised when you get called out.

I’m not in the military and am not familiar with USERRA but I think the issue in the interview was the fact that your friend was on mil leave and unable to work for his current employer. I think the point they were trying to make was, why are you on mil leave if you have time to take off and interview for a civilian job mid-week? I could be way off target but just speculating.

I agree with most of the guys/gals here. It's not the smartest move to interview with a 121 airline while on military leave from another airline. Spirit has a strong demand for pilots and they are hiring aggressively to fill seats. There is no guarantee this person wouldn't do the same thing at Spirit,, i.e. take military leave again as soon as he gets a A320 type and seniority number at NK. I was in the guard myself before, and I commend the service to the country. But just trying to see things from the recruiting team's perspective.

I definitely agree about a companie’s concerns with someones motives and if they are going to tactically drop Mil leave, but is it legal for a company to openly not hire someone because of their military status?

I seriously doubt they openly gave a reason. He may have interpreted it that way, but HR will never show their cards.

Doesn’t sound like they didn’t hire him because of his military status, it sounds like they thought his personality sucked...

Goodluck proving Spirit is anti-military... they’ve got a long history of hiring military folks.

Your friend gets a below in headwork though...

So you are suggesting that Spirit openly didn’t hire this pilot because of their military status?

Here’s another take: I understand that Southwest routinely asks pilots if they called in sick to make it to the interview. They then call their HR to see if they were telling the truth. They don’t like people who abuse sick time, and check for integrity.

This seems similar. If you are on MIL leave, that time is to perform MIL functions, NOT shop around for a new CIV job.

Short answer to thread premise - No. Spirit HR uses due diligence to screen all prospective new hires, regardless of backgrounds.

I was given extra scrutiny during my interview, since my military background and boilerplate legacy resume left the perception of potential flight risk. I had to persuade HR that I planned to spend my future glory days in the left seat of a beautiful bright yellow Airbus, and after some poignant questioning, they were convinced of my sincerity.

Sandi and her team do a phenomenal job filling the flight deck with pilots that make my trips safe and enjoyable. This is a Herculean task, considering she’s managed to quadruple our flight staffing in less than seven years with no immediate end in sight... all with ULCC minded limited resources.

So, just like the unwritten rule of not calling in sick to attend a competitors job fair or interview, your friend might contemplate appearing on his own time for the next one. Consider it a learning experience and stop whining about discrimination. Best of luck on the next go around!

a "friend"....:rolleyes:

You’re making the assumption that that was the reason, which CANT BE PROVEN. Often imbedded isn’t so much what the question sounds like as it is the personality/integrity test behind it.

Airlines hire/don’t hire pilots with DUI’s

Airlines hire/don’t hire pilots with arrest records.

Airlines hire/don’t hire pilots with multiple failed check rides.

Airlines hire/don’t hire pilots that have had accidents/incidents/warning letters/letters of correction /violations.

Airlines hire/don’t hire pilots that “resigned” from former employers.

It’s usually in the follow questions and the answers given to that and other questions that are the determining factor.

No, because USERRA requires you to return to the employer from which you took USERRA Regulated Leave. I waited until I was back at my original carrier to apply.
Yes, a majority of the questions encompassed my time in the military and multiple deployments. Most of mine were due to my ability to speak two different languages that are in demand. They seemed to accept that answer.

Any properly lawyered up HR department will, in response to a written request, provide the following (and no more):

Date of Hire
Date of Separation
Beginning Wage
Ending Wage
Job Title

..... and is most definitely NOT going to take a random phone call asking about someone's sick leave usage

I’ll tell you what I think. I think its good to know I’m not going to ever have to fly with “your friend”. I appreciate and thank “your friend” for his service but his integrity and intelligence is obviously in doubt. I also think “your friend” is a little too smug and probably would not be a good fit here anyhow and that’s why he didn’t get hired. That’s what I think.

You know if the Guard/Reserve brings you on for a couple months....you get to use your leave (vacation) that you've earned. Some of you guys think he's criminally insane to take a day off to go to an interview. I don't see any problem with that. Explaining why you've worked somewhere for 4 years and only have 101 hours would be the issue.......

I highly doubt he didn't get the job because he was on military leave. I am sure there was something else, but if HR was openly critical about him being on mil leave than that is how he perceived the interview went. It doesn't matter if HR had a good reason not to hire him, if there is a small amount of perception that discrimination took place than HR can be in the wrong.

An option is to contact the Employer Support for Guard/Reserve (ESGR). They are an educational group (not enforcement group) that will talk to the HR at Spirit about USERRA Laws. And Yes USERRA does protect and military member from being discriminated for military affiliation during an initial hiring process. I doubt anything will come of it, but it may prevent HR from asking those line of questions in future interviews.

I think what many are saying is, that wasn't the issue.

Amen! Especially since part of that quadrupling was hiring me.

It is ABSOLUTELY discrimination. By DEFINITION:

In plain English, to "discriminate" means to distinguish, single out, or make a distinction. In everyday life, when faced with more than one option, we discriminate in arriving at almost every decision we make. But in the context of civil rights law, unlawful discrimination refers to unfair or unequal treatment of an individual (or group) based on certain characteristics, including:

Age
Disability
Ethnicity
Gender
Marital status
National origin
Race,
Religion, and
Sexual orientation.


Lawful vs. Unlawful Discrimination

Not all types of discrimination will violate federal and/or state laws that prohibit discrimination. Some types of unequal treatment are perfectly legal, and cannot form the basis for a civil rights case alleging discrimination.
........

Unfortunately for your "friend", an airline choosing to discriminate between a military member with good judgment and a military member with pi$$ poor judgment is not in the least illegal.

The USERRA is not just for protection from current employer. The USERRA clearly states that an Employer cannot discriminate against and individual for their military affiliation during an initial hiring process. This is federal law.

Like others have said, your "friend" is assuming that he didn't get the job because of his military status. How do you know that he didn't messed up on the other parts of the interview? I would say that 50% of my interview was graded from the panel and the other 50% was from the admin girls who were observing us while others were doing the panel. Maybe he said the wrong thing when he thought no one was looking. You seem to be focus on this legality issue, however if you know anything about Spirit's HR. You would know that they do great job of hiring the people who would be a great fit for this pilot group (your "friend" wasn't one of them), and military of not has nothing to do with it.

How do you know that he didn’t messed up? Please.

your friend is assuming he didn’t get hired because he’s military. Is that illegal? I don’t know... you say it is so sure. Good luck proving that. Proving discriminatory hiring practices is not an easy task at all.

We have so many military pilots here, I was starting to think we only hire from the military.

I'm a former Guarder sitting in the left seat at Spirit. My military experience wasn't a hinderance to getting hired.

So got an update.

My friend ran into a Spirit Captain recently that was there the day he interviewed. He said at the end of the day they reviewed all the applications and everyone on the team really liked my friend and wanted to hire him but Sandi (HR Manager) refused to hire him because he was currently on military leave and even though he would be off military orders before the class start date she thought he would take military leave soon after starting at Spirit.

Despite anyones feelings about people taking military leave, the USERRA specifically states you can not discriminate during the initial hiring process for someones military status. So what Sandi did was 100% illegal.

My friend was very upset and wanted to spend his career at Spirit. After the experience he has moved on and wants to work for a company that wants him to be there. Don't worry he not trying to file a complaint or sue, he is just disappointed in Spirit. He is a better man than me. I would have at least filed a complaint with the ESGR.

If you work at Spirit and don't believe this story than call Sandi and ask her for yourself.

Either you or your friend are FOS. He happened to run into a captain who happened to be at his interview who HAPPENED to be told exactly why your friend didn't get hired? BS story dude

Spirit does not have a line pilot in the interview, only management.

That’s quite a dangerous accusation to make of a lady who has hired countless military pilots over a pretty long career and has never had so much as one hiccup with discrimination accusations. Your boy couldn’t hack it... game over don’t get butt hurt about it and vent on a forum... Which by the way changes the outcome ZERO... I’m sure delta or JetBlue will gobble him up and he’ll have a great career there

Don't be an idiot, not a single person will believe you or your d!ckbag pal. Sandi is the reason we have a great pilot group. I'm glad your pal didn't get on, he/she sounds like trouble.

I'm former Mil and have regional part 121 experience and I got a TBNT letter from Spirit. But to be fair on my psych eval I told them I like to microwave cats. So what now its not PC to microwave cats? Freaking HR runs hiring anyway. Bunch of liberal PC safe spacers.....they probably all have cats for pets. :rolleyes:

Nah. It’s the FAs with the thriving feline ranches