Why do you feel that way? If they got 330’s you’d be upset?


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Yes. A second airframe dilutes the bases and lines. It isn't any different, and perhaps worse, than new bases. Imagine every upgrade and new hire going to a different airframe. Your relative seniority, with our near zero retirement attrition, stagnates for perpetuity.

The ULCC cost advantage is also highly marginalized on long stage lengths and wide bodies. Longer stage lengths folks are more demanding of room, food, and entertainment. There's a reason that we are optimal at a 1000nm stage length. Wide bodies are already high density airframes and our model doesn't bring the CASM down to where we'd desire. The only good thing about an A330 at NK would be that we'd finally get market rate A320 pay on property.

I suppose it's all a matter of comparison to whatever other options you have, and by that I mean not what other companies you can apply to, but what other companies have offered you a job. In my experience, chasing upgrades is a fairly futile endeavor, and the whole risk vs reward thing may not be clear until the day after you retire, if then.

"flood" a 250-300 pilot base (which is what bwi would be, look at MCO for a recent example of base size vs number of departures a day) with ACY is laughable. ACY is what... 80 pilots total? don't even both counting the bottm 20 fos.

As long as it is cheaper to have the crew base compared to the cost of overnighting a bunch of crews then it makes sense to have a base. No reason they can’t keep ACY and have BWI. ACY is kind of an outlier but those planes are always full whenever I fly into there.


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they will keep both bases for sure. to say that ACY will close if BWI opens completely overlooks the fact that MCO didn't open by cannibalizing or closing FLL at all.

I’m pretty sure when FLL closes the north runway, the flights out of there will slow to a crawl...
I bet the re surface project had a lot to do with the opening of MCO as a base.

So will Orlando close or pilots get displaced when the FLL runway reopens? It’s hard to believe we would have an entire new base that’s going to be pretty large because of a temporary runway closure.

LGA and SJU were all bases too at one point. Recently bases seem to open and stay open unlike the past.

Oh I see, so they decided to open an entire base because another base would be slightly inconvenienced for less than 12 months.............





Okie dokie bud, I guess nothing to do with the 30+ departures out of MCO and the 60+ rooms we pay for there every night.

Even IF they wanted to close ACY for a BWI base, they wouldn't announce the ACY closure until they staff the BWI base. Why be on the hook for all the involuntary displacement costs of announcing ACY closing, when they could "reduce ACY" with voluntary vacancies to BWI, and then when ACY doesn't have any more willing participants, announce ACY is closing and only take the hit on those involuntarily moving.

In the end, I dont think they open BWI or close ACY, for a while. Seems their goal right now is to staff MCO with 100% voluntary vacancies, with the help of vacancy bids, reductions in other bases without backfills, and PBS implementation here soon.

If Bendo has to pay to move a pilot, he loses in his mind.

Back in another life and at another airline, he paid to move and train me three times in one year.

What are you basing this opinion on? We have swap boards and people swap constantly. We even have ho's who will commute across the country and get a hotel+rental car just to pick up a sweet trip out of base.

Don't call people who pick up open time trips Ho's :) Don't want to get the TRO opened again, or a new lawsuit. Management is watching :)

Lol. At allegiant we aren't negotiating and won't be for many years. And people who travel from Florida to Arizona to pick up a 200% 4 leg day trip are definitely hoes.

25%. That how much the airport authority asked each airline to reduce its traffic by. So definitely slowed. But to a crawl? Hardly.

Out of base is the key there. With a bunch of small bases you lose all flexibility in base. ACY is small and there is very little to swap with usually. Every time we open a new base we dilute the existing bases and lower flexibility as well as slow seniority movement in base. A handful of big bases throughout the country is best. A bunch of mini bases is terrible.

Upgrade Time
 

You’d be singing a different tune if you happened to live in one of these “mini bases” and were stuck commuting. I can see both sides of the argument though. Also who says that any of the new bases are going to be small, MCO could very well be bigger than Vegas or DFW when it’s all said and done. Same for BWI if that ever happens.


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I'm curious as to how its going to lower my flexibility when I don't have any right now anyway?

Where's my corner and how far back do you like my legs?

Plane Coffee

No, actually we post swap and trade trips constantly here. Even in the tiny bases. It's actually pretty easy to swap day trips and get a day off or am/pm if something comes up.

:D

filler…..

Oh fill me full of your great wisdom from Skywest. You’ve been here how long??
Yeah....
Thought so.

Can't attack the argument so you attack the person?

Google Ad hominem.

WTF is google?


Point is...
Some of us have seen this game played out before..
Some “phuckry” is afoot.
Trust me.

I don't disagree at all about that.

Just because I haven't been here until recently doesn't mean I'm new to this whole charade we call the industry

Swapping day trip between each other is much different than “swapping” (flica speak for trading with open-time) a mixed line when there is little to no open time because all the flying is spread out to a bunch of mini bases.

You want people leaving that are ahead of you (retirements, carrier changes, fleet, or base) and people being added below you. It doesn't matter if we hire another 10,000 pilots junior to you unless they're in the same fleet, seat, and base. Your relative position will stagnate, and your flexibility, if all the new hires were to go BWI in an A220.

Or all people above you could bid BWI A220 and those 10K newhires would end up underneath you....
At NK and WN upgrade is at 55%, except for a few holdouts. At all the legacy carriers there is 20 long haul FOs, and now 2 year captains, as long as you don't mind sitting reserve in EWR+JFK+LGA. I think having more types and more bases gives people more options.

For the third time we do both. Mutual and open time. Are you dense or something?

I’m not bagging on Alligent man. I’m just saying a bunch of mini bases is bad for relative seniority and lowers flexibility because of availability of open time. This isn’t a Spirit vs Alligent dick measuring contest that you want to make it. If you want me to say that Alligent has the best schedules and the most flexibility and the best possible scenario for seniority movement with a bunch of small bases then fine, you win.

I’m for opening another base if it’s a desirable location that a large group of pilots want to live. It’s almost always at the detriment to the pilots staying in the current bases but if it improves qol for a bunch of guys by taking them off the commuter rolls then I’m willing to make that sacrifice. But having a few big bases is the best for the group as a collective.

But we're not that airline. There are 3 out there if that's what folks need.

We have very few retirements in the next 10 years. The majority of my seniority (Hey, that rhymes!) has, and will continue to come from people hired behind me. Especially in the more senior bases. More people behind me means more lines / PBS options in base. I may still need to bid the same amount, but I'll at least have more to choose from. MCO stagnates that.

That being said, I'm glad the company is expanding and continuing to grow. So... silver linings.

Right now ACY is the junior base for FOs. Pretty much every month the whole FO list gets replaced. You want to be senior, bid ACY FO! The only way MCO would stagnate your seniority would be if more junior people than senior people bid MCO. If more senior people bid out of your base to MCO it is the same as retirements: your number goes up without the base growing. Without knowing if the new base will be senior, there is no way of telling how it will affect you seniority.

The only thing I was trying to get across, is that having more bid positions gives people more options. You want to be junior on the big plane, or senior on the small plane. I happen to think options are good.

Plan for MCO is at least the same size of DFW per crew plan

At WN, it's currently sitting at 60% with bypassers starting to upgrade. As a frame of reference, the difference between 55 and 60% here is around 500 pilots.

Absolutely not true. Out of the 60 FOs that we have in ACY, 51 want to be there. There is almost no movement for ACY FOs since the senior ones aren't upgrading because they can't sit reserve from home, or are enjoying being senior.


ACY is junior for FO's (only 9 last bid), but the ones that don't want to be there will probably never have to fly a trip out of there. By the time they're done training, they are based in FLL or DTW.

You're the one who brought allegiant into this and used us as an example of something bad. I came in to say you have no idea what you're talking about but you keep trying to push a bad position. I really could GAF what you think or what Spirit does. I'm just saying we have a whole bunch of small bases and it works out for us. We also only do day trips so we are comparing apples to kumquats. What works for us probably wouldn't work with conventional trips. As for the dick measuring contest, it's no contest. Be sure you take a couple steps closer to the urinal next time. ;)