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The mock bid awards for March LAS CA were incorrect, and removed from Flica for manual correction.

PBS NOT allowing to bid for, or avoid, a specific RAP, is a major failure for RES bidding under PBS.
One could be awarded an undesirable RAP regardless of seniority, since days off have precedence over RAP!
Who agreed to that?
Why wasn't this addressed?
Did "they" care about reservists?

No drops and no choice of RAP...

You can bid for your spacific RAP but I don’t know that it makes much difference. The past two mock bids I’ve received R03 when it wasn’t even on my bid the first time and was my last preference on the most recent bid. I think it will be a win for lineholders as it will allow more flexibility in building one’s schedule but it will be a pain while on reserve.

The system does not even look at your RAP preferences until it awards your working and off days. If just a single one of your working days has enough coverage for a certain rap it will not award that rap. Period.

So if you wanted have a certain rap over maybe a certain day off there is no way to build your schedule in that way. The system says congratulations I got you the days off you wanted now let’s see what rap you want. Oops sorry I can’t give it to you on the working days I already awarded you so I’m going to give you this garbage rap you want no part of.

Well, we had to sign it to see what was in it. You expected, what?

Let’s face it the new contract is pretty crappy for reserves in general.


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Thank you.
We ALL know this, and it is UNACCEPTABLE!
What we don't know/understand, is why the MEC/JPWG agreed to this?
Choosing your RAP is the most crucial part of RES, IMO more so than days off.
It only makes sense that it would be the other way.
Award RAP according to seniority, followed by the days off one can hold.

Back to my point about disregarding RES QOL.

Blank check...
You GET IT my union brother.
One more victory for Bendo.

Absolutely.
Why are we accepting this, and taking another concession?

Great job JPWG! :mad:

Both seats in LAS missing from March mock awards.
Manual reversion...

You do realize if raps were processed first and you got no days off you wanted that just as many if not more people would be ****ed.

You should be able to build a bid group just like a lineholder does. If you prefer a rap over days off put it up top or vice versa. Clear schedule start next and cascade or let it go to denial and let the chips fall. The system doesn’t allow it is what I’ve been told.

^^^
Thank you!
That's exactly the issue.
NO choice between making days off, or RAP higher priority.
I would assume that most would rather have the desired RAP, even if not all of their days off were honored.
JPWG should fix that.

Sorry but programming doesn't work that way. You don't have complete control over either with line bidding (you're RAP lining up exactly with your desired days off). If the reserve rules were less rigid allowing a mix of RAPs per block then it would be more flexible. One has to have priority over the other. You just get to see it before hand with line bidding because the company is already building lines with the exact number of lines with the RAPs they need. Days off as much as possible. Since RAPs must be over the entire month, one is flexible, one isn't. No wonder they chose days off.

Sounds like implementation is delayed through at least May, maybe longer???

I thought we were going live in May?

Nevermind just listened to the recording. This management is unreal. They agree to a contract and violate it at every turn by “interpreting” it differently and waiting for arbitration. How many times did we file group grievances and set arbitration dates only to have the company give in the day before the date. They just like to stall constantly whether in negotiations or not, realizing savings the entire way. They couldn’t care less about ****ing us off along the way.

Going to be a while now. Company is playing hard ball with the PBS MOU.

I don't think very long as PBS falls under expedited arbitration, right?

Now if they happen to win, which they rarely do, it might be a while.

Nope, they want to play the long game. Management claims it should go to the systems board. Bendo doesn't like the new rigs under PBS.

Will they have an option of playing the long game? I think per the terms of the contract with expedited arbitration regarding PBS that they will not have much of a choice.

They pull and 11th hour addition of PBS as a required term of Contract 2018, we fully comply and do our part of the implementation under the agreed upon terms, then they try to pull the rug out from under us again in the 11th hour? While I voted no and don’t love the contract, I still believe in and support the process. I am hopeful and somewhat assured that any arbitrator will tell managment to kick rocks if they try to change their mind now.

I asked Art Luby about the possibility of Managment pulling just this at one of the road shows, and he was very convinced that the company won’t have a leg to stand on if they try to squash PBS as long as we uphold our end. I guess we will see.

My cautiously optimistic guess is PBS or Line bidding with new rigs/duty day by August.

Why can’t the union just say what the company doesn’t want to comply with? We have to rely on rumors on apc.

Per the ALPA email, spirit doesn’t think the disagreement falls under expedited arbitration of the LOA and want to go through the normal Grivence process. To me that says they don’t actually want an agreement they just want to stall. What difference does it make to them whether it goes to expedited arbitration or regular? One reason: one process takes forever and they buy more time at our currently terrible rigs at 2nd to bottom pay. It’s negotiating in bad faith and blatant stalling just like they did in sec 6 and will do again in our next CBA. I hope all the new guys are seeing this. A year in and they are already showing what they will do for years in 2023. We should’ve gotten the rigs day one PBS or not.

I’m saying that I don’t think they have a choice of whether it goes to expedited or system arbitration. Granted that without knowing the issue at hand as iwasinverted mentioned, we are merely speculating. If the issue has to do with the PBS LOA, it goes to expedited arbitration as defined in the terms of contract 2018. The whole point of the expedited arbitration clause was to protect both parties interest in the event that the other side dragged their feet. I simply don’t think that either side can just claim that a particular issue isn’t eligible for expedited arbitration. This would defeat the purpose of it. The company can claim what ever they want, but just like I cannot refuse a legal Y list trip if I pick up my phone, they too have contractual protocol they have to follow.

You’re absolutely right that we either should have gotten new rigs/duty day from day 1 or otherwise a tit for tat trade; they get transition conflict and reserve drops when we get the new rigs.

It’s not a jab at our guys but this is why lawyers should be negotiating our contracts not pilots that go to 5 days of ALPA training.

Couldn't agree more!

Do you know any pilots who are also lawyers in our pilot group? There is a reason ALPA sends lawyers to help out. We negotiate collectively as a pilot group, not lawyer to lawyer. I think this comment is a little disengenous. Hindsight is always 20/20, but magagmeny here has shown their true colors for a while so as individuals I think they can be held accountable for believing that magagment was acting in “Good faith.”

You guys realize our contract favors the senior pilot group. Hence who our JPWG was made up of. They f$&@ed everyone else to get their raise. Their bonus. They don’t bid reserve. What do they care about it? Another corrupt selfish group. Once the TRO came out. Everyone should’ve stepped down for a whole new group, they were all compromised even more so after that. Just sayin’

You do know that at least one member of the JPWG will be on reserve forever right

By choice?

Aaaannnd you realize that that senior group you mention is NOT the majority, right??

It wasn’t the negotiating committee that formed the majority required to vote the contract in.....

I doubt it happens very often that the majority is made up of the juniority- but was certainly the case this time.

Careful where you place blame.

Nope.


Filler

Why are we pointing fingers at each other when we all know who the real enemy is......






Crab people.....

Most of the "senior guys" are disappointed with the deal. Your anger is misdirected. Maybe next time the junior guys won't be so apathetic and disengaged.

The year 3-8 captains were the ones that passed this deal. SG1159 is correct in stating "juniority" ruled. Also, many FOs gladly said yes. They threw a little money at them and they gave in.

The company deserves credit for changing the dynamics of this group. They hired a bunch of pro-growth, submissive candidates that voted in a sub-par, low tier deal.

The truth hurts.

I knew it was them or Manbearpig, and, yes, I’m super serial.

Manbearpig doesn’t exist... Fake news... :D;)

If Bendo has people reading this thread, he would be thrilled.
That's how they play, plain dirty.
Just like the Distant Learning LOA lies and last minute PBS demands.
Bendo F*&% up about the rigs and is now throwing a fit...
This is who we are dealing with, remember that next time around!

Contract 2018 was a failure in many levels.
Folks are getting it now, ... but it's too late.
I'm in the hotel van listening to well meaning yes voters angry about rescheduling,
not being able to drop reserve, and multiple PBS issues, but I have to bite it not to say "told you so..."

Management has nothing to lose by stalling, they don't get penalized.
If one of us would decide not to abide by the CBA, we would be in Miramar ...
They have nothing to lose.
Not an even playing field.
Our retro was 1/6 of what was owed and we gladly took it!
That's the message we sent!

Let me reiterate:
Know who we are dealing with, and remember that next time around!

I find it funny that everyone I fly with now is a “no” voter. Seems statistically unlikely that it’s true.

There it is right there, exactly spot on, every word.

Probably because those that voted yes are too ashamed to admit it now. This delayed PBS implementaition scenario was so incredibly predictable if you have spent more than 5 minutes working for this POS management group. We signed the deal without getting the rigs at DOS and without knowing the rules of PBS. Who does that?

I fall into that demographic of 3-8 year ca and was a solid no, as were most my classmates I spoke with because of the reserve rules. Most of us in my seniority range bounce from relief to reserve line, the reserve rules were enough for me to vote No. I do agree the company did an excellent job of hiring people who are of the mind “this is better then my regional” and they voted that way. At this point if anyone complains about it I just ask if they voted yes, usually that’s the end of the discussion.


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Brother let it rip! Im going ballistic trying to find my response to PBS being stalled by the company. No incentive to push it to go live. As one of my yes voter stated to me once, "I wanted to be over 200 hr , even if im a 10yr capt".

Face it, a lot of the yes voters are either punching out within 9 yrs, Happy to play airplane 100 blk/100 credit , over 200hr or short sighted.

LET IT RIP! TOLD YOU SO!

A recall can't come fast enough!

Recall from where and how long have you bypassed? Thought most recalls had to be back by now?

I believe he’s referring to our union reps