New Flows
 

While they don’t seem drastically different how do you all feel about splitting the cockpit set up flows into PM and PF?

Whats a flow?

Well to me they seem completely different and I personally think it’s a stupid idea. Why change something that not only works just fine but also over 2,000 pilots already have ingrained in their brain?

New flows? Eh?

Flows are the procedures you use once a year when you show up for a PC.

New Flows
 

FNNNG here with a report date coming up in a bit.

We got them emailed out to us over the last few days (after committing the others to memory [emoji1360]). OB says they don’t go live until 8/15 but all July and August classes will use them. The draft revisions of AOM 2 go on to state, “All Normal Procedures are usually performed by memory.....The Preliminary Cockpit Preparation procedure can be either performed from memory or with the use of the QRM Normal Procedures section” so I’m sure a revised QRM is coming down the pipe as well.

After running them a couple of times it seems they’re not terrible other than CA/FO switching to PF/PM and a couple sequence changes but we (new hires) haven’t been doing them for years either. I’m lucky I can even tie my shoes most days so take what I say with a grain of salt. Waiting on new flow guides to come out.

We still have guys refusing to do things SOP because “that’s not how we did it on the -9/80” so I’m not too concerned.

Did I miss an email

“What do you mean? Hold up, let me turn the screens down, WX gain to +4, and a smoke the brakes...ok, what was that about...”

Apparently I did too....

Not sure what most of this means... but you are aware that AOM2 specifically has us set gain to +4 for TO, right? (Except for those tail #s that specify +8....)

You will see communication in the near future telling you heating the brakes up increases their longevity

Is that why planes are parked with a +4 gain? Because they had it on for take off and never changed it?

Setting a +4 or +8 for takeoff makes sense to get a inclusive shot of the weather out there, but flying around with it?

My understanding was a long time ago it was policy the gain be +4 for the flight, which is why so many leave it at +4, not because guys are doing it specially for take off, or +8, and then adjusting in the air.

In the end, who cares. It was a joke about guys doing the same flows and calls outs from 20 years ago. Just like turning the tubes down doesn’t save them from burn in.

That then begs the question of why we needed to change from the straight Airbus flows to the oddity we currently employ? Oh I forgot, only captains are qualified to operate lights and fuel pumps...

Sorry, but I am only qualified to turn the pump on, if they need to be off we will need someone else.

I’ll take that as a “no...”

You can “take it” any way you please.

A proximity scan for take off has nothing to do with being “required” to maintain a specific gain setting for flight. But I get it, you have been here a while and must be one of those who likes flying around in cruise at +8. Makes everything look super scary. Happy deviating.

Jeez....

I found it ironic that you made a crack about following SOP, when it sounded like you didn’t quite actually know the SOP- SO I ASKED- a VERY simple “yes or no” question....

Which, by the way, you stil haven’t really answered... Very telling.

I never said ANYTHING about being required to maintain any setting for flight- I said TO- and the book is very clear... you know- “SOP...”

And no- I don’t regularly fly around with it set at +8, but I do occasionally find it to be a very useful tool...

Wow guys. If were going to argue about SOP, know the SOP! The AOM defines the tails that are supposed to to GAIN +4 and GAIN +8 and the ALTITUDES associated with them. (+4 below FL200 or +8 below 15,000 depending on the tail). Seeing those gains at the gate doesn't mean that they were their the whole flight, only that they were there below the appropriate altitude, which IS SOP!

Well played sir.

Great, a lot of FOs can just barely do the crap they are supposed to do now. It’s like perpetual IOE for some. Can’t wait for switching back and forth every leg.

Same with a lot of the CA’s.

Nothing of new flows have been sent to 365

Anyone have a location on where these are?

Think they’ve only been sent to new hires for now.

I don’t think they have been posted anywhere. I was shown them by someone going through new hire training and a check airmen I asked confirmed that we will be making the switch soon.

I see our revolving door of mid level "Director of something or another" has got yet another new member looking to stamp their name on something.

Now they have a TMAAT that they made an improvement story to tell as they move on to another job in 6 months and someone else can come in and re-write the procedures again for their stepping stone.

No kidding. If you can't help raise the game of the person next to you, you might want to look in the mirror. They flew well enough to get through OE. Maybe the problem is an unsupportive environment compounded by a little weakness. Seems some of us forget what it's like not to have thousands of hours in type..

Unsupportive environment. Awesome. I really hope we are the only work group with lives in our hands that feels everyone should get their hands held forever. Brother is still a resident, if he doesn’t know something he’s supposed to, he doesn’t get an ice cream cone, he gets his ass kicked.

Yep, we are supposed to support each other in the cockpit until the day we retire. As are surgical teams.. I guess you operate differently. The odds are not in your favor..

Yeah I’m sure you never ever make a mistake. Must be nice being gods gift to Aviation.

New Flows
 

Oh cool....I can’t wait to come on board...

You gonna beat up your FO for not knowing something? You have some anger management issues that you should talk to someone about.

You never know, the person in that right seat might save you sometime. Everyone makes mistakes. Then again, that person might choose to let you make that mistake

LOL Every FO that I have flown with does a good job. are you talking about? Let me see the latest "no fly list" and see if youre there.

LMAO!

So I came from Allegiant. Literally, 2 months after finishing OE, we switched to the FCOM (which is what these “new flows” are).

I come to Spirit (very happy to be here) and 2 months after finishing OE we are switching to the FCOM. Can’t make it up!

The FCOM (Official Airbus Flows) are not bad. I think most will find your doing less flows and things. Btw we are already doing the FCOM somewhat.

The “First to the Aircraft - Preliminary Mandatory Flow and the Captains Pre Flight Flow” are both straight from the FCOM.

The Preliminary flow is the PM checklist/flow and the Captains Pre Flight flow is the PF checklist/flow.

TLDR - FCOM Airbus flows aren’t going to be hard to learn/retain.

I’ve taken the initiative, and on my days off learned the new flows; my decision making skills and landings prove this change is a positive!

What?........

You guys adjust your radar "gain" according to altitude? Not tilt, gain?

I assume that was a joke.

I got paper copies of the A320 flight deck and taped them on my walls at home to start putting these flows to muscle memory. I have the center panel taped to an ottoman, it’s pretty sweet.

If anyone wants to come over and practice new flows, my mom can make us sloppy joes