Just blindly flying runway heading and 1500FT without tower instructions to do so is eventually going to get someone in trouble
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Originally Posted by Neverassume
(Post 3156756)
Just blindly flying runway heading and 1500FT without tower instructions to do so is eventually going to get someone in trouble
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Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 3156743)
Here is a Question,
while doing a visual approach we are told to fly runway heading and climb to 1500 AGL. Let’s say you are landing at 13R into DFW and cleared for the visual approach. Then let’s say you have to go around, are you really going to fly straight ahead? (Look at the chart and think about another arriving and departing traffic) "At airports with an operating control tower, aircraft executing a go-around may be instructed to enter the traffic pattern for landing and an altitude assignment is not required. The pilot is expected to climb to pattern altitude and is required to maintain terrain and obstruction clearance. ATC must maintain applicable separation from other aircraft." My opinion, based upon the letter of the law is that we should climb to 1500ft AGL and stay in the pattern until given other instruction. I've been to ASE, EGE, TEX, JAC, SMO, TEB, LGA, BKL and I mention those because I don't think I was ever cleared for a visual there (in a jet on an IFR flight plan.. and not a charted/RNAV visual). My hunch is that ATC really wouldn't want me to stay in the pattern. If we land 13R together I'd plan what our book says to do but we'll see and avoid (turn right) when necessary. |
Originally Posted by SlimBob
(Post 3156761)
7110.65 Section 4, 7-1-4(a). Regarding Visual Approaches:
"At airports with an operating control tower, aircraft executing a go-around may be instructed to enter the traffic pattern for landing and an altitude assignment is not required. The pilot is expected to climb to pattern altitude and is required to maintain terrain and obstruction clearance. ATC must maintain applicable separation from other aircraft." My opinion, based upon the letter of the law is that we should climb to 1500ft AGL and stay in the pattern until given other instruction. I've been to ASE, EGE, TEX, JAC, SMO, TEB, LGA, BKL and I mention those because I don't think I was ever cleared for a visual there (in a jet on an IFR flight plan.. and not a charted/RNAV visual). My hunch is that ATC really wouldn't want me to stay in the pattern. If we land 13R together I'd plan what our book says to do but we'll see and avoid (turn right) when necessary. this fly 1500 feet runway heading is complete BS!!! read 5-4-23(e) in the FAR/AIM. and I don’t understand why the FAR/AIM is contradictory to FAA JO 7110.65 |
It can’t be a fixed heading or altitude because this is a generic instruction. Some airports have hills on the far end. Some have other large airports near by. All these require judgement. ATC expects you to do what is “expected”. Fly runway heading if you can and stay out of the clouds at 1500’ is expected in most places. If you loose comms or switched to advisory freq at non towered airports you’re expected to enter the traffic pattern and land visually then call on the ground to cancel.
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This is not the first airline I’ve been at with 1500 runway heading on a visual go around. You’re on visual approach, you can’t just pick an arbitrary instrument missed you want to follow. And the company has to print some sort of guidance because pilots more and more can’t think for themselves. That’s partly the litigious nature and not wanting to be held at fault.
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Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 3156779)
so it doesn’t even say to fly runway heading. It just says you “may be instructed to remain in the pattern”
this fly 1500 feet runway heading is complete BS!!! read 5-4-23(e) in the FAR/AIM. and I don’t understand why the FAR/AIM is contradictory to FAA JO 7110.65 |
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 3156866)
This is not the first airline I’ve been at with 1500 runway heading on a visual go around. You’re on visual approach, you can’t just pick an arbitrary instrument missed you want to follow. And the company has to print some sort of guidance because pilots more and more can’t think for themselves. That’s partly the litigious nature and not wanting to be held at fault.
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Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 3156872)
Okay, but you DO NOT fly runway heading indefinitely...You are supposed to enter the traffic pattern on a crosswind leg until ATC gives further instructions. Read 5-4-23(e) in the FAR/AIM.
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