New hire pay on reserve
 

What are those paychecks looking like year one on reserve?

Expect around $41k during your 1st year. That's assuming 3 months at training pay & 9 months at minimum guarantee with 2% A321 override. You might be able to make more if you put yourself on premium flying list for flying on your day off. But if you're trying to budget around your paycheck it is best to just assume min pay as other pay is not guaranteed.

Said it before and I’ll say it again, treating new guys (and gals) like cr@p with pay barely half (or less) of what most were making as a regional captain is NOT the way to build pilot group unity. Yeah, yeah, I know that it’s even worse at UPS. So what?

If you want quality future coworkers in these days of declining pilot availability, easing the transition to the big leagues needs to be a priority for every pilot group, not just for management. Even if it costs a little negotiating capital.

I was really interested in Spirit, since I live in Las Vegas, but I’m single income with a family. There’s no way I could make 42k work for my first year!

Hey Clubber, whats your prediction of life on first year reserve?

It's a great time to get divorced if you're marriage just isn't working out. Ask me how I know...

Way to miss the forest for the trees.

You’ll break $100k easy your second year and by year three, seeing you live in base and are willing to be flexible, you can easily be north of $150k.

I was also single income with kids. I ended up financing my first year mostly on credit. And that was on the old contract. I don’t think I made much more than $30k. In South Florida.

Yes it sucked, but long term it made sense.

That was 5 years ago. My income is now well north of $250k, double anything I would have dreamed of at my previous employer...

Your kids will survive For a year on Ramen and Mac n Cheese no problem. It’ll go by fast.

You have to laugh when you have an RJ CA on your plane tell you “I would come to Spirit, but it’s too much of a drop for me in pay”. Meanwhile he is making $72/hr as an RJ CA.

I financed my first year on savings. And was getting back to even by year 2 (old contract). Whether or not first year pay should be higher this contract is another topic. But you’re completely right that although first year will hurt, the payoff has been excellent.

Dare I say “in my day it was $38/hr”

You’re military, 2000 hours. Get a job with a regional, take the signing bonus to get by first year and you’ll get on with a Legacy because they still love military hires.

Coming from a good corporate airplane, it’s going to take me several years to get back to where I’m at, and the first year paycut is a whole whole lot, but as you guys stated, you just have to suck it up and do it. We are going to live off savings, and I sold a few toys to fund the first year. In the end, I’ll get it all back and get it back relatively quickly.

I did the same thing. Took around a 60% pay cut just on base salary, not including total compensation with stocks. It’ll take a year or two to get back to where I was but the quality of life increase is way worth it.

A friend of mine I helped get hired just went through this. Without divulging details about his life, he saw he could just barely make it on salary and eating into savings, but was worried about some unexpected things that may come up. We have the same bank and I suggested a home equity line of credit since they have good terms. Now he has access to a large sum of money if he really needs it, otherwise they just tighten their belts a bit.

There are always options if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I figure I took an 80% cut first year...6 years later...the juice was so worth the squeeze

Flew a trip with a nearly 30 year regional captain.

He told me he made more money his second year here than he did his last year at said regional.

As a commuting First Officer.

On reserve.

Whatever you guys are going to do, do it yesterday, because someone else just snagged your seniority number...

Yep. My paycut is in excessive of $100K before my yearly profit sharing check from the current company. It’s going to be tough, but we will get through it.

Great points Gringo. I was definitely a bit near sighted in that post. I appreciate the information, and did not realize how much I could be making at Spirit by year 3. I have never dreamed of making anything near 250k - a little pain for a year to have that 5 years down the road is completely worth it!

I’d assume most regional captains started when year 1 regional FO pay was around $20/hr. It’s not an excuse, but if you can survive that you can definitely make it through year 1 pay here.

I was a O4 over 10. When I transitioned from military (non pilot with a few hundred civilian flight hours) to airline pilot. I went from O4 over 10 pay plus $2200/month BAH and military retention bonuses to $18,000 first year as a regional airline FO and $32k 2d year as a 2d year regional airline captain. Was hard to do - the wife had to go back to work and newborn meant we qualified for food stamps for the first 6 years as a regional airline pilot family.

I didn’t break back to parity to what I earned in the military as an airline pilot until second year pay at Spirit (old contract at $72/hr as a 2d year FO) which happened 11 years after I left the military.

Not to be one of those guys but I remember making only $38.50 1st year not too long and finding out a way to make it work. Was that money good enough? No but I made a plan to be able to afford that first year pay until the 2nd year boost. Pilots with family will have a hard time crunching the numbers but lets not act like its going back to the days of riding a bike in the rain to the airport because you can't afford a car.

I believe the union response and therefore the voice of the pilot group (Yes Voters) was, “We don’t want to waste negotiating capital on guys/gals that aren’t on property.” :mad:

Just because that’s the way it’s always been, doesn’t mean that’s the way it always has to be. Opportunity for change missed.

That’s ridiculous. Cry me a river. Before the contract we have pilots on property that made tens of thousands of dollars less than their peers, some over $100k less. Even post contract we are below them.

But yeah, let’s focus on setting the new bar for first year pay. Don’t think for a second that raising first year higher would not shift the money backwards in other areas.

The best are guys like Excargodog coming here to complain as regional new hire FO that has zero comprehension on how the industry works, contrary to his self proclaimed wisdom.

Contract passed “Bigly”. You know why? Money. Simple.

Well, depending on how the next few years go with the other guys' contract negotiations we very well could be back at the same deficit again. Should we sell year 1 down the river one more time? Clearly we have nothing left to sell since the money's going to shift backwards.

First year got a 45% raise this contract and DOS increases year over year. First year ends at $61.15. I hope we can secure another 45% raise for first year on that for next contract. Is that “selling them down the river?”

Would $90 an hr next contract make everyone happy? Or do we need to guarantee that everyone on first year next time makes $100k first year?

Raises will come, as they will hopefully come to all pilots. Sorry but the pilot group spoke with their votes and wallets. You can hate that fact, but it doesn’t make it any less of a fact.

What if the company decides to run a massive hiring campaign and throws out hefty sign on bonuses to new hires on top of whatever raise ALPA negotiated for them? Anyone ever think about that??

Many of us saw this exact scenario played out at the regionals...brand new FOs making more than senior FOs on property and in some cases on par with junior CAs. All the while the dues paying pilots on property were fighting for a new contract that never came because new hire classes were full. Not interested in seeing that played out again in my career...no thanks.

Maybe they weren’t sold down the river, but I don’t think prospective candidates care enough to research what the huge percentage gain was for first year pilots at Spirit. I think they’re still looking at the dollar amount. So yes, while first year pay at Spirit went up an unheard of 45%, it still just became $55.95 increasing to $61.15 in 5 years, for 7 months with 3 months being paid at $1000 + $750 per diem. Would it have convinced you to come here? Apparently so, but for others, maybe not. Sure we don’t need/want/care about people like that here, but at some point we gotta realize first year pay is a factor for people considering careers here, like the thread starter.

And yes, I think something closer to $90 would likely end the discussion about first year pay. What kind of question is that?

So you’re good with $hit Training Pay, No Health Insurance for 90 Days, pathetic 1st year rates and no schedule Flexibility while on Reserve. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I took the $70k pay cut there too, but it doesn’t make it justifiable. How about folks facing medical issues personally or within their families while on Training pay without Insurance?

Blinded by the pay raises and your personal gains. :cool:

Haha. You’re being ridiculous. Nobody said they are “good” with anything. Healthcare is an entirely different animal. If you’re going to play the straw man argument, you should not lead with it.

Here are some facts you need to accept as an adult; Santa isn’t real, you’re really weren’t the “best kid in the world”, regardless what your parents told you growing up, and you always don’t get what you want when you want it.

“Pay rates and personal gains?” I’m sorry but are we doing this for fun? This is a profession, it’s how we make money; so you’re darn right that pilots care about personal gains and the pay rates that provide them. It’s the reason we go to work, save for retirement, take an X list, it’s for the gains. You think any pilot on this list outside of probation feels bad about personal gains? It’s why we do it.

Complain all you want but your argument is pie-eyed and full of whimsical hope, based in fairly tale land. First year guys got 45% raises and hopefully this place keeps going to provide another 45% increase next fo around.

But spare the hyperbole of how first year pilots are begging for food in the streets. Riddle me how every other pilot did it on $38 and now it’s a travesty that they are doing it now at $57. Never will you convince me that any pilot currently on the seniority list should have taken less this contract so that guys not on the property can have more than a 45% raise.

Really just sounds like a bunch of excuses for mediocrity and inferior qualities in a contract.

Like I said, just because we suffered through it doesn’t mean the next 2,500 New Hires should as well.

And yes, pay rates and personal gains completely blinded you from the hardships that your fellow pilots would have to suffer. The percentages are large, because of the pathetically low starting point.

None of the above affects you any longer, so you don’t care.

Taking well over $100K out of your income is real close to that.

These guys will just try to rationalize what they know deep down is a $hit sandwich. The same way they rationalized their way into a Yes Vote, while taking numerous concessions.

Personally, I can’t wait to hear “45%” and “better than pre 2017 regional rates” again! :rolleyes:

You keep talking like that, someone will wash your mouth out with soap.

“Better than my Regional” ;)

So to the OP, per the numbers here (old contract $30,000 first year w/ a 45% increase) you’ll see $43,500. Give or take a few thousand. Not better than your regional.

Spirit pilots of the last decade have subsidized the company’s growth with low wages and will continue to do so. The Pilot’s take on personal debt, so that the airline can continue to grow and hopefully be the “next Southwest” one day.

You want pilots that don't agree with "better than my regional": pay them better than the regional INCLUDING year 1. If we want a better contract we need to make sure the people we hire want it too.

Agree entirely. There are REGIONALS that have first year pay of $50 an hour that STILL have to give bonuses to get quality applicants. But that’s not even the point I was trying to make.

What does it do to pilot unity when you hold first year wages hostage to increased wages to people making far more? What are you telling junior people who may want to join you?

That your fellow pilots VALUE YOU LESS THAN MANAGEMENT DOES.
That’s what you are telling them. And then you wonder why there isn’t unity in the pilot group? Why it’s every
Man/woman for him or herself?

Look, the RLA stacks the cards against the union badly enough without the pilot group themselves doing things to screw over pilot unity.

I don’t follow the logic of comparing first year pay between Spirit and regional airlines. Last I checked, regionals don’t pay $107 second year.

First year pay is tough, sure. But if you planned ahead as a regional CA by paying off all your debt and saving up an emergency fund you’ll be fine. I have a hunch the guys complaining about first year pay are still debt slaves who never made an attempt to get out.

Sure, rationalize being a highly skilled professional with years of experience and going back to less than entry level wages. Everyone has paid their dues by the time they arrive at Spirit. No need to take that kick in the nuts for your employer or be put in that position by your peers.

I could make the same argument the other way....”how much should a senior airline pilot with 20+ years experience sacrifice in wages, when approaching retirement, so that a new hire can get double the raise of those hired 2 years before him.” Should the senior pilot have saved more for retirement so that the pay decrease wouldn’t be an issue? Could I make the same argument of the new hire and saving?
How much less would you take an hour to increase first year pay?? Serious question because it would not be increased more, without a cut somewhere. Or should the pilot group refuse to sign any contract that doesn’t have higher first year pay? Should on property pilots draw a line to raise first year pay, because in sure the recruiting department would love that as well.

Stand by what I said, first year pay isn’t close to perfect but highly doable and I know this because most all of us did it at $38!

If you can’t swing it, no problem, but don’t expect the pilot group at large to take less to supplement hiring and growth.

You can reply with your standard hysteria and hyperbole about how nobody cares etc....

Naw. More fun to just wait and watch the look on your faces when the NMB says since the pilots group seems to think $57 an hour for new hire pilots is appropriate, vs 92-90 for legacies, the pilots union themselves have defined themselves as only being worth 63% of the legacy A320 pay scale.

Based on the United A320 payscale, that would top one of your 12 year captains out at $178 an hour.

Don’t bet your management won’t some day make that argument. Or that that argument won’t be made by the other pilot group if there is someday a SLI.

Bad karma has a way of biting people in the butt eventually.