Would new hires prefer a $30,000 training bond for their A320 type rating? Aside from the ability to hustle, $58/hr and $100/hr at guarantee work out to be pretty darn close if you throw in a $30,000 training bond to be repaid over year one.

Ideally some negotiating capital will become available to get new hires paid guarantee while keeping lodging and per diem. Any other bump to first year pay is a next-contract issue. To get that little bump for trainees will probably take the new-hire well drying up and with legacy hiring temporarily slowing that probably won't happen this year.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji1787] it's funny (and sooo sad) because it's true! At the picketing in FLL I went to, we had just over 50 pilots I think. Of course almost a third were other airline.

But all the angry typing on APC and WhatsApp helped us out enormously last time. [emoji848][emoji849][emoji19]

The regionals pay more first year for one reason and one reason only.

They have no choice.

Our classes are full and there’s a line out the door. So clearly management does not see a burning need to improve first year pay.

And frankly, we have more important issues that need to be addressed with our limited negotiating capital during the next round of negotiations.

I agree with the NC. First year pay is a management function, not the union.

Would I love to see a higher first year pay? Of course. Everyone here would.

Am I willing to give up negotiating capital for it instead of, say, Calendar Day rigs? Or redeye override? Or removing the “international destinations” limitation?

Nope. And neither would anyone else already on property.

I’m tired of this “negotiating capital” mantra that you guys have been spittin’ since ALPA put it in your head last negotiation cycle. It won’t take squat to get New Hires Health Insurance from Day 1 and a measly raise to an already pathetic rate plus higher training pay. All I see is that dang Lord of The Rings Gollum character and his “precious” (negotiating capital) every time y’all say that.

If you don't believe contract negotiations are purely quid pro quo, I don't know what we can tell you.

As the lyricist Cage the Elephant said "Ain't no rest for the wicked / money don't grow on trees / I got bills to pay, I got mouths to feed / Ain't nothing in this world for free"

All I see is someone who doesn’t understand how negotiations work.

At least you’ve got plenty of company.

“That won’t take squat” = very little capital spent

What’s an extra 3 months Health Insurance?

What’s a bump from $1,000/month Training Pay to $3,000 for 3 months?

Two items that wouldn’t have been a drop in the bucket, but “we don’t want to waste negotiating capital on guys that aren’t on property.” Guess what they’re on property under those conditions and they’re your ALPA/Spirit brothers and sisters.

Reserve drops and flexibility given up for One Reserve block drop per year.
Hard Lines and Transition Conflicts given up for PBS.
All given up for old (prior to a CBA) JetBlue payrates +$1.

Maybe it’s you guys that understand your own self worth.

This (and I’m currently on first year pay). Sure, I’d love more money but I don’t expect people who have been here a long time to give up anything so someone who isn’t on property (or a member of the union) can get a $30/hr raise. Contract negotiations are certainly quid pro quo, no company is just going to roll
over and give pilots everything they want.

I personally would have been happy with health benefits day one and no training pay. Having to pay for cobra for 3 months was not cheap.


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Well, at least it sounds like the next round will be an easy win for the company. Give something, take something, and this place is always going to be better than a regional, and as long as there's that "line out the door" argument, they can keep dropping to ATP mins like last time, and the line just keeps getting longer. Who wouldn't pick Spirit over Mesa if the requirements are the same and they just need a body in the right seat?

You listed some nice things we may want next round and I've heard some common others on the line, so here's an example of what we want:
Cal Day Rigs, Redeye Override, better international pay, stronger scope, better LTD, 16% DC, higher hourly rates, better per diem, better reserve flexibility, higher instructor override, 8 hours for ground school, etc.

Do we have a list of things equally long to give them back for your "quid pro quo"? Our strongest argument seems to be people won't come here or apply next round if things aren't "good enough" here, but at this point, it is significantly than a regional, and if the company is willing to (like last round) drop the mins to the same as the regionals, and hire almost everyone on the spot, what do we do? What is there to give up if something must always be traded? No one has been able to answer that.