WARN Notice
 

Who’s got them and how deep have they gone?

Umm nobody? ...yet

I’m in the bottom 100 and nothing yet

They have 6 days to get to the mailbox. Most were probably sent out today if not tomorrow.

nothing says they have to furlough exactly on oct 1st

I don’t think people understand the WARN act. The furloughs May fall below the threshold of 500 or 33%. Individuals do not have to be notified when there is a Union. The company can choose to notify the union. What notice requirement is in your CBA? That’s what matters most.

source: https://www.thebalancecareers.com/wa...ements-1918297

True, but there’s something that says they can’t do it before then. Therefore, since they don’t have to get the notices out more than 60 days in advance, it would make sense to not expect them any sooner than they have to provide them.

Yes, but that is 500 across all employee groups, not just pilots. FAs have already begun receiving their WARN notices.

There may be less than 500 furloughs, but they will gratuitously over-WARN for a variety of reasons.

Yep, I’m expecting them to send out 1000

That’s the exact number I heard from someone who would probably know.

FedEx notices are going out for deliveries from Spirit Corp.

I heard they were being sent out from UPS. What can brown do for you?

Our WARN notices’ came in the form of company memo (UAL).

- I fully expect the “Furlough Notice” to come via FDX/UPS certified letter however.

you heard incorrectly.

Per Ted’s email, notices will be out to 20-30% of various groups, including pilots.

848 pilots

30% of 2597 is 780 pilots

Depends on the State. UAL gave WARN notices via our Crew Communications System.
NJ said they had to actually mail the letters to those individuals.
Started showing up yesterday.

780, or 779.1 is 30% of the pilot group which if they did the full 30% would take us back to seniority number 1817 hired 3/5/18. But they said 20 to 30% so there is not a definite number yet.

important emphasis on MAY

Question about downgrading.

lets say the company decides to downgrade 800 pilots starting October 1st. You can’t possibly put 800 pilots in the sim in one months time for a FO PC check because of limited sim capacity (don’t forget all the recurrent training for other pilots as well.)

So my question is, if you are a captain and you are downgrading when does your new FO payrate start? When you finish your PC? So it could possibly take many months past October 1st to wait your turn for your “downgrade PC” and your new FO payrate?

and they can’t force you to keep flying as a captain but pay you FO rate, or maybe they can just tell you are automatically dq’ed from being a captain and you have a couple of months off untill your PC is available? Asking for a friend.

with no more newhires or upg in sim there is likely tons of sim time open

Just a line guy, so not even worth $0.02...
The number is less than 800 furloughed, so probably not more than 400 downgrades.
Downgrading will be done in reverse seniority. You will fly/sit reserve and get paid as a Captain until start/end of GS/OE (don’t know, and contract doesn’t have much to say about downgrade). You will not fly as a captain at FO rates. There will (should?) be displacement/downgrade bids with training dates, and it will/should be awarded in seniority order. If no one bids it, it will be assigned in reverse seniority. It will take a few days of training and OE to downgrade, but I think with SIM capacity and check airmen availability based on hiring 60/month, they can probably downgrade 3 times that. Discuss........

Let’s all let this play out a little bit. It’s nice to be prepared but just don’t get ahead of ourselves. This is a long road and so many scenarios can play out. My guess is August September is our new bottom in travel and it’s no where near April so it’s only up from there. You can see it where you live. Life is lumbering along. Now one is going to go back into lockdown and spirit has the liquidity to push through all this for a while and the longer this goes the more people are just going to say F it and fly.

We will lose some passengers for economic reasons and gain passengers moving down in product seeking savings so that’s a good thing for us. How much smaller do we need to be and for how long is what remains to be seen and spirit doesn’t even know. They have to send the letters just in case but no amount of money will change that number up or down. They will build a schedule and it will require a certain amount of pilots whether they make $500 or $0. Same required pilots. Just a matter of where on the seniority list they come from.

Be prepared but don’t react to something that hasn’t happened is all I’m saying. We have some time here.

806 notices sent out

We are losing 100 million a month, there will be furloughs.

Read it again. He didn’t say there will not be furlough. He said 20%-30% “may” be furlough. As in, may be 20%-30% or less.

The town hall wasn’t very positive. I’d say chance of furloughs and downgrades, 100%

could you please go over the highlights? I was flying and couldn’t listen in.

They don’t anticipate demand returning before summer 2021. 319’s are most likely candidates for parking. They don’t know if they will park them short term like they did in April or long term. We can’t sustain this cash burn and have to take steps to “right size” the airline. They will evaluate how many furloughs for office support at a later date. For now, pilots, FA, dispatch and mechanics are being served their 60 WARN notice. How many of those will actually be furloughed won’t be know until 30 days prior to the end of the CARES act. If the government continues the CARES act, they will re-evaluate once the detains are known about the extension. They didn’t sound real solid that that would prevent the “Right Sizing” the airline. He did say that downgrades would be “Commensurate” with the number of furloughs

You didn't miss anything important. The admins selected some ridiculous and irrelevant questions so nothing truly pertinent was addressed.

the questions that non pilots ask kill me.

Wasn’t $1.5M a day the number from the earnings call. Whatever they say to investors should be factual. What they say to employees is part of the spin game.

Yes there will be furloughs. 806, most likely not.

if anyone thought otherwise, they were just being naive.

Speaking of being naïve :rolleyes:... What do you think the chances are of our furloughed pilots actually seeing the “furlough pay” outlined in the contract? Are they likely to honor it, or are they going to try to pull AoG despite having 6mo to prepare?

0% chance of furlough pay

Union should start stepping up with communications about furlough pay, COBRA coverage, costs, CARES Act rules of borrowing from 401k, IRA, refinancing, mental health assistance, assistance from ALPA, reps should be reaching out to the guys who got WARN letters. Lots of folks here have their heads spinning and need some direction.

I don't expect to see a penny.

I’m sure this falls in the out of companies control/act of god. No furlough pay. As far as borrowing from your 401K, that info is on the Schwab website. In a nurse, you can pull up too $100k (I think) but you have to pay it back by the end of this year to avoid penalties and interest