2022: Year of the Spirit Stepping Stone
 

For those interested in leaving due to the announcement of the Frontier merger, where are you wanting to go — or already left or about to leave to — this year and why?

Forgive my ignorance here but wouldn’t a move to WN for anyone more senior than a 2-3 year FO be considered a somewhat lateral move? I understand those wanting to go to DL/UA/AA with retirements and WB flying but otherwise I don’t get it. Ex you’re a 3rd year NK FO living in MCO wanting to go to WN and be MCO based. Would that be a situation where it would be dumb to leave NK?

You won’t upgrade in the next decade, but you’d probably make more money. If that’s a thing.

This. A line holding FO at WN would make more than a sub-12 year reserve CA here.

More money? Definitely.

Also … Southwest is a dominant force and growing to 1,000 jets. Don’t think they’re just going to roll over and die with the rise of the Spirontier merger. Southwest seems more stable and a much more likable brand, for whatever that’s worth.

WN has been “growing to 1000 jets” for the last decade, and currently only have the manpower to fly 3/4’s of their schedule. Definitely a more stable and likable company, but they’re having the same problems we are. There’s a greater career progression and ability to fly anything other than the guppy at the other members of the Big 4. It’s currently a better job than ULULCC, and a great place to hang your hat. It’s not the end all be all anymore much to their consternation.

Southwest canceled over 2000 flights last month. They aren't some rainbow on the horizon

I left NK after 2 years. Went to UA late last year. Doing the math I will have far better seniority at UA than I would have had staying at NK after about 10 years time. That was the biggest reason. Pay if you count profit sharing drastically favored UA as I was in my 20s when I was hired at UA. I also want to live somewhere NK doesn't have a base at and have been commuting the whole time. I'm a west coast guy and hate the LAS flying. UA flying isn't nearly as fatiguing as the 3 nights of red-eye flying or jungle turning. Was probably halfway up the FO list and couldn't bid away from it still. Everything I left for may change, especially now with the merger, but I made my decision based on what was current at the time.

With all that being said I liked NK. Crews were great and I'd be hard pressed to find a more laid back work environment. I just think there's better opportunities out there for me.

Airline cultures and QOL can change very quickly, especially during/after a merger. Just because Spirit may be a good place to be today in terms of QOL doesn't mean that it will be even tolerable a year from now.

If you are looking at airlines, look at longevity. Which airlines will still be in business in 20 years. Which airlines have the best hubs/route structure. Which airlines have the infrastructure to support the continued success of the airline and any future needs. Which airline will give you the best chance of having a long and successful career.

I would rather have a solid 30 year career with constant career progression as opposed to "It's a relaxed place to fly and has good crews", but then you have to start over again and again as airlines go out of business.

That is what is important.

Someone really drank the koolaid at the AAG WO recruitment booth

Nope. Just considering Spirit to be a career airline is laughable.

Exactly what people said about Southwest in the '90s.

How long you been in the industry bud?

$100 he flys for or has flown at Skywest.

Where’s the spirit cheerleaders saying “Sandi let another one by?”

how times change. Place is poised to become a CFI churning ground before going to a legacy.

Captains thought their Instructing days were behind them? Think again. Brush up on your fundamentals of instruction book for your new right seat co workers.

Also Brush up on being nice to your new generation of helicopter parent raised co pilots. Lots of positive reinforcement required. Pro Stands and HR will
be busy with factual based feedback hurt feelings soon.

I’m wanting to go to Frontier.

Have you seen the balance sheets of the legacy carriers? American looks really scary, UAL is hanging on by a thread, and Delta isn't in great shape. If not for the federal government pumping money, these companies would be bankrupt. Spirit, while not making money, still has a healthy balance sheet. Indigo has money in the bank.

agree! I can’t wait to take spirit to Zurich, Madrid, or Lisbon. Thank god we have a large ULCC to facilitate transportation for 29 dollar transcon fares.

So why aren’t you at a legacy yet?

At a ULCC you can make over $250k a year while only working half the month. Plus you can easily hit the IRS limits on your 401k retiring with millions in the bank. Sounds like a great career to me.

Prior to COVID the ULCC model in the US was doing pretty well, growing market share, and working towards the sort of market share that ULCCs have in Europe:

https://i.ibb.co/09tXGJt/D787-CE15-7...-CAA9813-F.jpg

The decrease (if not demise) of the regional model is going to hurt legacies far more than anyone else. Yes, I know they can pick up that flying with NBs that have a lower CASM, yada yada, so can the ULCCs. But legacy managements aren’t stupid. If they thought they could have done that without it costing them more, they would have eliminated regional codesharing a decade ago. Losing regional flying may be a plus for ULCCs that pick up those regional routes, but it won’t be for the legacies. And the gates freed up by declining numbers of regional aircraft open new markets fir hub to hub competition.

We are headed into interesting times.

$250 isn’t that much money anymore. And half the month isn’t as great as it sounds if you’re gone all day and night that half and your peers are making a lot more and working less.

Chaos creates cash. Being short and letting the premium flow is the best. Years where we are well staffed are my lowest earning years. The SWA pilots are probably making double what I’m making this year.

Chaos is cash baby! I pray that they never get caught up on staffing at SWA! It’s been ludicrous $ for the number of days worked. Now we just need a new contract with a large increase in rates and many other fixes.

I’m a 6 year CA at NK on reserve living in base, my friend who is a 8 year FO at SWA holding a line in base out earned me by almost $80k last year. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

I think half our group either “better than my regional” guys, foreign pilots, or super old top 10% with their heads in the sand have no idea how far behind we are.

Can’t wait to see everyone show up at the picketing events!

Same rhetoric as last time, “I’m not low tier,” “Whatever it takes” etc…

(40 Spirit pilots show up to a picketing event)

Can’t wait to see all this moxie this time!

Once again this pilot group will have to decide if we get the contract we deserve or the contract we earned. I know Frontier shows up in full force

Reserve pilots at SWA get paid. Considering I’ll be on reserve here for a long time it’s very appealing. More days off and more pay. Red eyes and jungle turns have been so much fun…

Half of the NK pilot group that will be here for the next picket weren’t even on property in 2017. Like it or not it’s a whole different group and the majority will be newer junior pilots. You fly with them, talk to them about how important this is.

And if those of you who were MIA in 2017 want to sit it out again, I’ll catch a flight out to Denver and walk the line with the F9 pilots.

I will be there.

Or you can go to SWA and work 12 days a month and make $300K as an FO (included are NEC, and 5% PS). Or go to a legacy and make more....

I’ve been more than happy seeing new blood come in this last decade, watering down some of the “legacy Spirit” pilot mentality we had, conflict blinders on and nothing else. And yup, we hired a bunch more, I just hope apathy isn’t contagious like it was in 2017

Proof is in the MF’ing pudding…we will see. Because people were just as loud in 2017 on these same forums and the effort was pathetic unless there was free pizza and beer involved

Very true. I look forward to Frontier getting short staffed so I can cash in on some more premium trips too.

I read every comment in the end of year salary thread. Awesome stuff.

But have you seen the 737 cockpit? (Just joking... kind of)

Absolutely GD right.

Go to AA and you can be in one of these videos.

https://youtu.be/KzEJo28LG-Y

Sure right now when they are all making 200% every time the jump in the plane. That won’t last.

Oh, it's not me sitting in there! But the W2 looks pretty comfortable.

Nope, based on regular ops. Yeah very senior FO, but you have no idea what 4 weeks of vacation SWA style and a monthly cap as opposed to yearly XY credit can do.

This poll is going to be misleading. You forgot to put the option of how many people now plan on staying as a result of the merger.

That would be my choice. I had entertained the idea of leaving to AA before, in particular after ORD closure, but now? No way. It’s true AA has a massive amount of retirements, but they also have a massive amount of debt and just recorded almost a billion in losses in one quarter alone. Frontier (Indigo) just announced the largest aircraft order in history and a few months later bought into an airline 150% larger than itself. Throw in some inflation, fuel prices, and interest rate hikes, maybe even war. Choose very carefully. Agreed SWA is a much safer bet but a quick scan through their pages on this forum and it’s easy to see it’s not all roses over there either. Plenty of 5-6 year FOs leaving on to the legacies there too or looking out with envious eyes. This industry is all about timing and luck.