Originally Posted by onedolla (Post 3708238)

I am loving your optimism, and I know you’ve been at one regional before here, but there’s a pretty good bet you’ll be disappointed in the power of our NK vote. You’re assuming our group is 100% united and that we haven’t sold anything for a $ before…

And as for your genius reserve rule reworks, YOU should be emailing reps that as well. I know you’re bright enough to know what the J in JCBA stands for.

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer (Post 3708636)

So much to unpack, but I’ll keep it short.

1) Reserve rules, grid rules, and DTZ go together. Not under the same provision under the CBA, but affects how DTZ to utilized. This was explained by me in details in one of the threads in the JB forum.

2) I’ve said that we have senior folks bidding reserve too because they won’t get called, but you won’t acknowledge that statement.

3) According to you, my regional was more professional than NK because said regional had very similar reserve rules to JB. You know who got to drop/swap/add, very few people because it was a free for all between reserves and lineholders. Having been there and done that, I’m not interested. Language will be VERY important in whatever we get.

4) Before you get your panties in a bunch again, I’ll say that if we can make DTZ work with good reserve rules that make sense, I’m all for it. This is something I’ve stated 5 pages back, but you enjoy arguing in between flights.

Originally Posted by Tornado875 (Post 3708642)

I don't think anyone actively wants DTZ to go away, its just as we compare reserve rules you are now trying to convince the blue 2/3rds of the combined airline to vote for DTZ at the cost of reserve QOL/flexibility and I think Blue and One are saying thats not likely to fly. At best you will find apathy/ mild interest towards DTZ on the bigger Blue side of the fence. IMO/Your results will vary.

Originally Posted by Tornado875 (Post 3708642)

I don't think anyone actively wants DTZ to go away, its just as we compare reserve rules you are now trying to convince the blue 2/3rds of the combined airline to vote for DTZ at the cost of reserve QOL/flexibility and I think Blue and One are saying thats not likely to fly. At best you will find apathy/ mild interest towards DTZ on the bigger Blue side of the fence. IMO/Your results will vary.

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer (Post 3708636)

So much to unpack, but I’ll keep it short.

1) Reserve rules, grid rules, and DTZ go together. Not under the same provision under the CBA, but affects how DTZ to utilized. This was explained by me in details in one of the threads in the JB forum.

2) I’ve said that we have senior folks bidding reserve too because they won’t get called, but you won’t acknowledge that statement.

3) According to you, my regional was more professional than NK because said regional had very similar reserve rules to JB. You know who got to drop/swap/add, very few people because it was a free for all between reserves and lineholders. Having been there and done that, I’m not interested. Language will be VERY important in whatever we get.

4) Before you get your panties in a bunch again, I’ll say that if we can make DTZ work with good reserve rules that make sense, I’m all for it. This is something I’ve stated 5 pages back, but you enjoy arguing in between flights.

Originally Posted by vegabondpilot (Post 3708722)

DTZ is industry standard. It should be non-negotiable. If it's not in the JCBA that would be a huge fail on the MEC and pilot groups. Recall worthy.

The grid rules are what make NK's awesome schedule flexibility happen. It's hard fought and arbitrated language and would insanely foolish to give that up. Recall worthy as well.

There's no reason we can't keep all of that and have industry leading pay. JetBlue guys acting like they're going to sell NK's superior contract for standard pay is complete loserthink.

Originally Posted by RemoveB4flght (Post 3708662)

And it’s been explained that reserve doesn’t have to be miserable for DTZ to function. Nor did it become that at NK out of necessity for it to be that way.

Originally Posted by vegabondpilot (Post 3708722)

DTZ is industry standard. It should be non-negotiable. If it's not in the JCBA that would be a huge fail on the MEC and pilot groups. Recall worthy.

The grid rules are what make NK's awesome schedule flexibility happen. It's hard fought and arbitrated language and would insanely foolish to give that up. Recall worthy as well.

There's no reason we can't keep all of that and have industry leading pay. JetBlue guys acting like they're going to sell NK's superior contract for standard pay is complete loserthink.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3708736)

Miserable is subjective, but your own guy (SoFlo) is saying that RSVs can't be allowed to have drop/swap because it would make DTZ worth very little (paraphrasing). So should I believe him or you?

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3708743)

Well, me. DTZ and better reserve rules are simply not mutually exclusive. Yet there are those who think it’s somehow the right thing to barter away QOL and payscale of new hires for other things in the contract for the senior people. That isn’t exclusive to NK,
Hawaiian and UPS have a long legacy of screwing their newbies as well, but that sentiment exists at NKamong some of the senior people as well. Not really hazing even, just a sense that their seniority entitles them to maximize things for them rather than for the group as a whole. My opinion, anyway.