JetBlue merger
09-18-2023, 09:13 PM
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: recliner
Posts: 142
Yeah, I probably should not post late at night sometimes.... What I do want is not having to fly with people that are disgruntled. Based on past mergers it will probably a case of equally unhappy more than equally happy as a best case. These mergers don't bring out the best in us (me). So yes, I throw back, when I see grenades flying. I don't see this merger as an improvement for the NK people. But, with the latest financials, I don't really see a good path forward for NK alone either.
The E190 thing? Every merger will have a date that will be used for the SLI. I know the date used for the AA/VA merger specifically excluded the higher future planned growth of VA, compared to AA. So yeah, I think it is a relevant question. Do I think it harms JB in an unfair way to ask that? I would definitely be ashamed if my union asked for a better spot on the SLI on the basis of us getting your pay rates, because we only would get those based on the merger so we should not get anything for that. But, depending on the SLI reference date, if you still have E190s I think it is fair to take those into account. The A220 is different, as it pays better than our A320, so that would not hold water.
But let me ask you this. Since the merger was announced we have added 20% more pilots, which was planned. Based on ASM JB has added about 7% as planned (correct me if I am wrong). How would you feel if we took those planned new-hires into account to calculate my RS compared to yours for SLI integration? It is really easy to make disingenuous arguments sound logical....
Commute policy:
It would take me at least 2-3 hours extra per trip to have to comply with your policy compared to ours. I often have 2 options that leave at the same time from different terminals. If the loads look good on both (and they always do because I am senior enough to commute against the traffic flow) it is a legal commute for me, but not for you. And there is never any question if I wouldn't make it. But I haven't missed a commute yet.
NK:
A pilot commuting to duty shall plan for a minimum of two separate flights that will arrive at his domicile in advance of his normal report time. If the first flight is oversold, delayed, or canceled, or if the pilot is denied a jumpseat or boarding for any reason, he shall notify Crew Scheduling as soon as practical.
A pilot who keeps accurate records of his scheduled commuter flights and otherwise complies with the provisions of this commuter policy shall not be subject to discipline for missing trip pairings due to denied boarding. A pilot may use the commuter policy as necessary with no limitations.
JB:
a. A commuting Pilot not reporting on time for required duty must be able to verify he was present and listed (a digital record of a CASS listing satisfies this requirement) on two (2) consecutive flights and both were scheduled to arrive in sufficient time to allow him to report on time (a commute with two (2) or more legs is considered one (1) flight for the purpose of this Section). Being rolled over from one flight to the next on the same airline satisfies this requirement.
c. Adequate time between different flights that depart from different ends of the same airport must be taken into consideration by the Pilot.
d. Additional travel time should be taken into consideration by the Pilot on days with adverse weather conditions.
e. Travel time between arrival terminals must be taken into consideration by the Pilot.
Commuting Strategy
A commuting Pilot who complies with the requirements of this Section shall not be subject to discipline based on missed commute unless there is evidence that the mis-commutes are the result of inadequate planning by the Pilot. A Chief Pilot may discuss patterns of commuting problems with the Pilot in an effort to resolve such issues by identifying the source of the problem and assisting in developing alternative commuting strategies. Repeated mis-commutes may be considered in evaluations of a commuting Pilot’s overall dependability.
The E190 thing? Every merger will have a date that will be used for the SLI. I know the date used for the AA/VA merger specifically excluded the higher future planned growth of VA, compared to AA. So yeah, I think it is a relevant question. Do I think it harms JB in an unfair way to ask that? I would definitely be ashamed if my union asked for a better spot on the SLI on the basis of us getting your pay rates, because we only would get those based on the merger so we should not get anything for that. But, depending on the SLI reference date, if you still have E190s I think it is fair to take those into account. The A220 is different, as it pays better than our A320, so that would not hold water.
But let me ask you this. Since the merger was announced we have added 20% more pilots, which was planned. Based on ASM JB has added about 7% as planned (correct me if I am wrong). How would you feel if we took those planned new-hires into account to calculate my RS compared to yours for SLI integration? It is really easy to make disingenuous arguments sound logical....
Commute policy:
It would take me at least 2-3 hours extra per trip to have to comply with your policy compared to ours. I often have 2 options that leave at the same time from different terminals. If the loads look good on both (and they always do because I am senior enough to commute against the traffic flow) it is a legal commute for me, but not for you. And there is never any question if I wouldn't make it. But I haven't missed a commute yet.
NK:
A pilot commuting to duty shall plan for a minimum of two separate flights that will arrive at his domicile in advance of his normal report time. If the first flight is oversold, delayed, or canceled, or if the pilot is denied a jumpseat or boarding for any reason, he shall notify Crew Scheduling as soon as practical.
A pilot who keeps accurate records of his scheduled commuter flights and otherwise complies with the provisions of this commuter policy shall not be subject to discipline for missing trip pairings due to denied boarding. A pilot may use the commuter policy as necessary with no limitations.
JB:
a. A commuting Pilot not reporting on time for required duty must be able to verify he was present and listed (a digital record of a CASS listing satisfies this requirement) on two (2) consecutive flights and both were scheduled to arrive in sufficient time to allow him to report on time (a commute with two (2) or more legs is considered one (1) flight for the purpose of this Section). Being rolled over from one flight to the next on the same airline satisfies this requirement.
c. Adequate time between different flights that depart from different ends of the same airport must be taken into consideration by the Pilot.
d. Additional travel time should be taken into consideration by the Pilot on days with adverse weather conditions.
e. Travel time between arrival terminals must be taken into consideration by the Pilot.
Commuting Strategy
A commuting Pilot who complies with the requirements of this Section shall not be subject to discipline based on missed commute unless there is evidence that the mis-commutes are the result of inadequate planning by the Pilot. A Chief Pilot may discuss patterns of commuting problems with the Pilot in an effort to resolve such issues by identifying the source of the problem and assisting in developing alternative commuting strategies. Repeated mis-commutes may be considered in evaluations of a commuting Pilot’s overall dependability.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
09-18-2023, 11:55 PM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2023
Posts: 175
Thanks for sharing this.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
Orur schedules are just a function of how the Company negotiates. They know a CBA is coming and steer the operation in the direction they want those negotiations to go. Until a few years ago we had country club schedules; it’s a function of the negotiations. I see a lot of pretending on here, that a hamburger is really steak, but it’s just fear of what may come.
09-19-2023, 05:14 AM
#163
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,908
Thanks for sharing this.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
Picking up trips in other bases? The company doesn't care, it was JBALPA and some of the pilots that didn't want that. I would think that could be worked out and potentially kept in the JCBA, especially with JB now moving some of the pilots bases from the NE down the MCO/FLL, which will level out our seniority greatly between bases and negate some of the pilots concerns with out of base pickups.
09-19-2023, 08:13 AM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 494
Thanks for sharing this.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
Friend of a friend I talk to occasionally has been at JB a few years now as a 320 FO. He lives on the West Coast of Florida, he was driving to crash on our mutual friend's couch to sit reserve in FLL. Once he could hold a line in JFK he jumped at it, but the commute was rough on him. Ran into him recently in FLL, he didn't know I was at Spirit and course we started talking shop. I showed him my schedule on Flica and he immediately perked up when he could see I had picked up trips out of base, he looked a little annoyed by it. He now holds a line in FLL so his life is better, but he mentioned this would have saved him a ton of grief from his multi-year RSW to JFK commute.
A few weeks later, I was jump-seating on JB and as soon as with climbed through 10k, merger talk started. Same thing, they both looked at my schedule on flica, the FO is very senior in FLL and lives 10 minutes from the airport so most of it wasn't relevant to him. The captain however is a commuter and immediately commented about my out of base pickups and my in-base drops. None of the trips on my schedule were in my assigned base in fact. I told him it's difficult to do that but I got lucky for the month. He told me that none of that was possible at JB, and just dropping one trip is difficult. Both guys were pretty floored when I told them I had been Spirit less than two years.
The pilot who owns the couch from the first story just upgraded at AA, he told me out of base pick-ups are possible, but much more difficult as in-base crews get priority.
I also want a pay raise, but I hope we don't trade away stuff like this for another $20/hr.
09-19-2023, 11:58 AM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 240
Looking likely that there will be no settlement:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/401332...EvmX-Z0mwlJZh8
Also, maybe someone can explain this tweet & how it benefits the DOJs argument to me like I'm 4 years old
https://x.com/winglets747/status/170...151504175?s=20
https://seekingalpha.com/news/401332...EvmX-Z0mwlJZh8
Spirit Airlines (NYSE:SAVE) fell 2% amid a report that the Department of Justice still plans to move forward with its trial to block the JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) deal despite a recently announced divestiture plan.
The DOJ hasn't changed its opinion that the combination of two competitors can't be solved via divestitures, according to a Dealreporter item on Tuesday, which cited people familiar. One source told the publication that the issue is not that JetBlue (JBLU) hasn't offered enough concessions, but that the merger isn't "fixable.
The DOJ hasn't changed its opinion that the combination of two competitors can't be solved via divestitures, according to a Dealreporter item on Tuesday, which cited people familiar. One source told the publication that the issue is not that JetBlue (JBLU) hasn't offered enough concessions, but that the merger isn't "fixable.
Also, maybe someone can explain this tweet & how it benefits the DOJs argument to me like I'm 4 years old
https://x.com/winglets747/status/170...151504175?s=20
I guess so....
09-19-2023, 02:12 PM
#168
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,863
Looking likely that there will be no settlement:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/401332...EvmX-Z0mwlJZh8
Also, maybe someone can explain this tweet & how it benefits the DOJs argument to me like I'm 4 years old
https://x.com/winglets747/status/170...151504175?s=20
https://seekingalpha.com/news/401332...EvmX-Z0mwlJZh8
Also, maybe someone can explain this tweet & how it benefits the DOJs argument to me like I'm 4 years old
https://x.com/winglets747/status/170...151504175?s=20
ridiculous waste of tax payers money. Clowns
09-19-2023, 02:19 PM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 412
All I know is they have to make a hell of a convincing argument to convince this republican appointed judge that the 5th largest airline is bad for competition, offering lower fares still, than the big 4 behemoths. I hope JBLU takes these divestitures back if the Judge doesn’t require them all.
ridiculous waste of tax payers money. Clowns
ridiculous waste of tax payers money. Clowns
09-19-2023, 02:34 PM
#170
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,863
If JBLU/NK is going to be too big, then they should break up the large legacy carriers, "Big Oil" style. Because if the new JBLU is a threat to the consumer, what do you call AA? It's ridiculous when I taxi around DFW and every tail is AA, and ATL with DAL, IAH with UAL...etc etc etc.
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