So how’s this gonna work out?
 

So we just started contract negotiations with a company about to go bankrupt…

so are we planning on asking for a pay cut then??? how do they picture this one working out for us?

I think the best thing would be just to leave this thing alone.


maybe they will threaten the company with more pilots leaving, because I’m sure that’s the last thing they want. Lol

But this is my second bite of the apple that the union promised. FYPM

The move to open negotiations is just a move to save face with that particular part of the pilot group. Spirit will announce Bankruptcy in April just as Ted has done before and it won't matter anyway.

why April?

I do agree it’s gonna happen, but why that month?

Will he announce furloughs before or after the bankruptcy in April? Maybe he will declare both in the same sentence. Maybe he’ll wait till your birthday.

Ted likes April for some reason. Go look at his Bankruptcy history

go somewhere else with all your negative bull****. Your negativity seems to be all you have.

Except he wasn't at Pinnacle when they file for BK. He resign and left before it happend. Pinnacle was already heading for BK long before Ted and Sean got there.

I’m at least $60 an hour paid less than my peers and no profit sharing. What planet do you live on?

So much talk about BK, but would love to hear how ya'll are arriving at these conclusions........

$30 says they try to sell us another bite of the apple and an extension.

I think you’re on the money. This is the worst tasting apple I’ve had in a while….

As much as I hate to say it, I agree that it should be left alone. Simply because its a waste of time and energy. We had two shots at this and blew it. At this point what could we possibly negotiate lol.

I believe he did steer 9E to bankruptcy. I could be wrong but who cares.

apparently not the same one as you. On your planet. you think you can get paid $60 more an hour even though we are about to be bankrupt and you think even if they give us profit it’s going to make a difference.

so let me ask you this question; in order for you get get paid out for profit sharing, don’t you think your company has to be profitable? 🤔 maybe on your planet.

what’s the worst that could happen? You guys are already broke. I say they should give you everything you want.

Actually, when the company ISN'T profitable may be the easiest time to negotiate for profit sharing because it literally costs the company nothing. And when (and if) the company does get turned around and is profitable, they can then afford it. It's a way of aligning management and labor and getting them both pulling in the same direction.

We are not, we have 60 days! 🤣

The reality is we had a choice to be in F9s position, $100 behind or in ours and 60 behind. Our cycles are off and we'll never catch up, so there wasn't a choice. Not too mention you have to have a NC that listens to the pilot group. They literally told us they wouldn't go back to the table because of that stupid fkn merger with jetblue.

We blew our chances for industry standard in 2018 before the extension and subsequently fd Alligent and Frontier.

You’re going to want to get something industry standard on the table asap. We have no idea what the industry is going to look like a few years from now. F9 being a cycle behind traces back to the bankruptcies. Basically last in last out with a two year extension with republic exiting bankruptcy at 0% and 2% rate increases. No work rule changes. Good luck.

Think you need some D

It’s called pattern bargaining and it doesn’t matter what I think. Market rate for a 320 captain is pushing $400 an hour. So yes I think our union should start the 3 year process to get us this far. You are an airline pilot right?

With your thought process. Why didn’t we negotiate profit sharing and industry leading pay 10 years ago when our profit margin was the best it’s ever been?

In order to get profit sharing, the company must make a profit and not about to furlough and delcare bankrupcy.

Was the same with the merger. The forum pros and their all mighty speculating skills.

I’ve been staying at the Marriott Dania Pointe a lot lately. There’s this neat new building / complex over here. Lots of yellow accents. Filling up with fixtures inside. Big lit up sign that says Spirit. People in and out all day.

A lot of money was sunk into this complex. Shows zero signs of a company in distress. If they were going to pull the plug, it’s not going to happen without a fight.

2018 we missed out on profit sharing literature. Missed out on alot of stuff.

Seriously, what’s your source? I’ve been through this before. Nothing really stands out to me, especially the lack of any official communications eluding to the idea of absolute insolvency, that makes BK seem imminent. Other than sensational television programming, what do you know, that many don’t?

Dont feed the b6 troll.

sadly, it’s not just the B6 trolls, we have our own people that come over here and scream, doom and desperation and bankruptcy and furloughs, the end is near, the end is near the sky is falling, the sky is falling. I remember when they announced that they were backing out of the deal, they were two or three people that were just sure that by end of the week we were going to have declared bankruptcy and furlough announcements sent. It just absolutely blows my mind

Spirit hasn't made money since 2019, has lost Billions over the last couple years. Spirit has a demand problem, debt problem, attrition problem, revenue stream problem, business model problem, ugly livery problem, NEO engine problems, and worst reputation in the industry problem. You think all of a sudden the new "Transition" team will fix all of this lol. It's called transitioning into Bankruptcy . What's currently happening can only continue for so long.

Hey you take that back

Demand isnt a problem, oversaturation caused by the company's Florida strategy is a problem. Attrition is no longer a problem. If one hasnt achieved a cjo elseware, then one is stuck here for at least another year. Spirit is currently overstaffed by 10 to 15%. We've got people on reserve that havent flown for two months or longer, and as far as negotiating a contract goes, lol im sure it's gonna be a laughable several years...if the company survives.

I agree engines are a definitive problem. I agree reputation is a definitive problem. Outside of that, Florida ATC is a definitive problem. Biden admin policy is a definitive problem. Still remarkable to me the Biden DOT is looking to effectively eliminate the strengths of ULCC model while the Biden DOJ has successfully argued the ULCC model is a public necessity.

Wait. Who told you Spirit wasn’t making any money? Did Ted or Bendo say this?

“Current and historical gross margin, operating margin and net profit margin for Spirit Airlines (SAVE) over the last 10 years. Profit margin can be defined as the percentage of revenue that a company retains as income after the deduction of expenses. Spirit Airlines net profit margin as of December 31, 2023 is -8.34%.”

geez . We have lots of problems . First airline ever to have any. You sold me. I’m going back to flight instructing first thing Monday.I’m not gonna sleep tonight. Thanks for the astute analysis. Now i can plan my future, since mine is so dark.

Cool. You can quote the internet. Who formulated the numbers that show this loss?

Spirit is a publicly traded company. You can look it up yourself.

https://i.imgur.com/RIbC76b.jpeg

Not sure how you say no one else is getting CJOs, American is still giving them out, United is still giving them out, Delta is still giving them out. For entertainment purposes only, I check out ALPA seniority list daily, I’m still averaging 35-40 a month leaving that are senior to me. Seems one to two, every day, leave. So due to the airplane groundings, the attrition may not be causing us a problem, it’s probably a good thing, but to say if people haven’t gotten a CJO by now they are stuck, is just absolutely false.

I’m amazed some people still think everything is okay. There’s no viable path that doesn’t include BK. Frankie is going to end up owning the company for half of his original offer. You think they’re going to tell anyone it’s coming? Everyone will find out when we wake up and see it on the news.

Pilot pay is not the contributing factor to our financial distress. Let me emphasize that point; WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! No amount of wage cuts have ever staved off an eventual bankruptcy; full pay till the last day DAMMIT! (Especially at this company.). And, halving gone through a bankruptcy, it is NOT the end of the world. It's not ideal, but the end isn't near either. When we see the 1113 term sheet, we'll collectively **** our pants, negotiate something better, and things will churn....