Will this judge approve NK’s exit plan
 

Or will this be a replay of the merger trial where we were all pretty confident that it was going to go one way but then didn’t.

My guess is when F9/NK talked last month they got to look under the hood and see if a deal would be viable after a certain amount of debt is shed in the CH11 process.

They got to figure out if a merger would actually be good for Frontier. This isn't 2 years ago coming out of COVID and demand was ever rising. You couldn't get planes/pilots fast enough. Not sure right now doubling the fleet overnight is such a good idea anymore.

It might serve them well to stay in their niche and grow incrementally and methodically. Seem like Spirit got too big too fast and imploded.

Considering spirit pre bankruptcy spirit was/is majority individual share holder owned. Does any one think chapter 11 may be a temporary stop to screw the individuals out of money

before these larger bond holder take everything in a liquidation during chapter 7.

Try again in english please.

Spirit declare “BUNKRUPTCY!!!!1!” (Chapter 11) to wipe out all the people holding the stock. (Common folk)

the company is now owned by the people that hold the debt eg BlackRock and other big scary private equity. They force the chapter 11 to gain full control of the company then turn around to make big money when they sell the pieces off. In chapter 7.

i think that’s what he’s trying to say.

How many times do we need to remind people that Spirit only has roughly 500 million in tangible assets. So where is this “big money” black rock and the other debt holders coming from??? Gates, leases, slots at LGA?

BlackRock doesn't own any of Spirit Airlines' debt...

The screwing has already been done...it's over for shareholders

sorry. Citadel. Same thing pretty much

Party City folding
 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/party-city-going-business-174343913.html

hey guys, I posted this on the other thread but just really wanted to spread the word.

Party City just announced they are folding after being in and out of bankruptcy.


Read the news article and read some of the details about the bankruptcy and how scary some of the similarities are between Spirit and Party City. (in regards to how they are navigating the bankruptcy.)

See Big Lots too. Sale lease back a bunch of stores, Ch 11 bankruptcy, put up the $200M HQ as collateral for debt financing, supposed to swap debt for equity with creditors and get more financing, CEO cheerleading the whole time...now liquidating.

Cherry on top - Low income consumers reduced spending listed as a factor

Good luck to us.

Name checks out.

I don't see this as a fair comparison. A leased building can be repurposed for pretty much anything, so the playing field is massive. What used to be a Big Lots where I live is already in the process of being turned into a gym, and this was pretty much done overnight.

If we went ch7 the lessor would have so many busted NEOs just sitting around for the next couple years. What airline would want to mess with that?

Also half of our HQ is the training center, which I doubt many industries outside of the airlines would have much use for that kind of building layout.

What pieces! They also dumped in a bunch of cash that we are currently in the process of spending to keep the ship moving. Sounds like a dumb idea.

The lessors would get an agreement from P&W to mirror ours if they got the planes back. But none of that helps the debt/equity holders. It’s now the lessors plane at that point

eerily similar scenario. If nobody picks us up out of ch11 we are done

they got greedy. Prices last time we went in there were nearly the same as Target. They moved from the poor side of town to an affluent area, in the same parking lot complex as Target…

alienate your customer base and that’s what happens.

seems like spirit is on the same path.

so what happens if the judge denies spirits new business plan on the 29th of Jan? Do they have to redo their plan and then resubmit?

Also, does anyone know the next key dates to look out for concerning next steps in the process?

You’re letting the JB merger case influence your thinking. Anyone that can comprehend adult-like instances, by withholding their political bias and or general cynicism, knew the merge would never happen and was almost certainly designed to destroy the F9/NK merger. Judges don’t just deny stuff simply because…..insert belief here. We don’t know the details exactly but it’s highly unlikely that any of the parties involved want to see additional loses as a result of a prolonged case.

I personally believe there’s a greater chance of the plan itself failing vs any sort of denial in judgement. Plus I’m not sure that’s how it works. Present plan details - Plan rejected - back to the table - additional proceedings etc. I think they’d just tweak things if possible to reach an agreement.

looks like a couple of new dockets filed today

They have hired FordHarrison for advice in "connection with certain labor and employment matters"

They posted their operational report for november. ~315 million dollar loss. i am sure theres a touch of accounting magic in that figure but no matter......holy ****eee

They hired Harrison Ford to say “Get off my yellow Plane!!!”

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o7qD...giphy.gif&ct=g

but they promised…..

If they hired Ford Harrison they will absolutely try to bully, bluster, and/or bluff the unions into taking cuts.

Yeah, this isn’t good to hear.

that and their lawyers will analyze every work groups contract/work rules. The will find every loop hole and advise mgmt how to exploit the contracts/work rules without violating said agreements.

Google their website… experts in keeping unions off property and “working” with them.

I suggest reading the book “confessions of a union buster”. Written by a former Ford/Harrison employee

Unfortunately that would be my take.

Spirit Management may have said they don’t intend to touch the pilot CBA but they left out the part about how it really isn’t up to them during bankruptcy.

Thing is when you’re losing $300M a quarter no amount of labor compensation cuts will make the difference when you’re already the second lowest paid. They just can’t make that case to be plausible.

Merger or massive increase in revenue are the only options.

The good news is that Ford and Harrison is a known quantity and ALPA should know the playbook by now.

I'm real curious what this "other" expense means in Spirits accounting. That's nearly $300m per quarter as it is, which is obsurd.

maybe hired in advanced of jcba negotiations. Seems a little late in the game to be hired to change anything in our contract given the proposed timeframe of this process

If they suspect they have a viable business plan (or merger plan) on the backside, they may just be leveraging the opportunity to scare labor into giving concessions. Because why not?

If it's an F9 merger, maybe they'd like the JCBA to start as far back from pole position as possible.

If they had a good legal case for cuts, I suspect they'd just ask the judge, not hire union busters.

It's not. Given the current state of the CBA relative to the rest of the industry, the court probably won't mess with it much.

But nothing to stop them from asking (in a carefully sculpted climate of fear).

​​​​
No kidding. They are the #1 aviation union busting law firm. Their trolls are even on this page spreading FUD if you know where to look.

Right now over on the allegiant forum FH has a bunch of guys with new accounts pretending to be "concerned citizens" in the pilot group and agitating to vote the union out and go non union... in the middle of negotiations!

Stand strong guys. Best of luck.

at the rate people are leaving and trying to leave their nest tactic would be to not cause any more pain.

Why would you assume labor concessions would be their ONLY solution to the problem?

I see it as a high probability, there will be some kind of financial relief through modified labor agreements. Spirit pilots may be some of the lowest per hour flown compensated pilots. However, due to some pretty sweet work rules and contractual agreements, the overall burden on the company probably bears some room for helping improve the state of the company.

With that being said, I’d imagine there will be hourly rate increases in the near future. And the ability to make equal to or more will be a thing. The change will come in how hard we have to work to obtain the same income.

Earning 100k at American Airlines requires more work than earning 100k at Spirit as a pilot. You can however earn far more in the end at American. Even Delta and UAL. They’re going to make people work for their money.

Probably better to not give anyone any ideas on a public forum

Oh just stop with this.

We don’t even have min day pay.
We just got block or better per leg, and had to wait a year into the new contract.
We have the WORST reserve rules of any major airline.
Our pilots who are working tomorrow get $75 vs double time etc at other airlines.
They get crew meals and we are told to not touch the pop chips or cheese boxes.

We can drop trips and give back money if there is coverage. That’s about it. Let’s please stop like our contract is superior in work rules compared to legacy airlines, it’s not.