Spirit of NKS, Part IV
02-12-2017, 06:45 AM
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Big E 757
If outstanding shares are bought up from the open market by the company, basically removing those shares from circulation, it increases the value of the existing shares in shareholder pockets, thus giving them money, by virtue of the value increase.
In other words, Wall Street looks at earnings per share and determines the value of each share of stock by how much each share of the company earns per quarter/per year. If you pull shares out of the pool, each outstanding share has more value. It's a tax free way of saying thanks to the people who buy your shares...until they sell the stock.
I'm not saying this is what happened, I have no idea. I'm just saying there are other ways to give money to shareholders than just divedends.
In other words, Wall Street looks at earnings per share and determines the value of each share of stock by how much each share of the company earns per quarter/per year. If you pull shares out of the pool, each outstanding share has more value. It's a tax free way of saying thanks to the people who buy your shares...until they sell the stock.
I'm not saying this is what happened, I have no idea. I'm just saying there are other ways to give money to shareholders than just divedends.
Look at Deltas cash position in the early 2000. I think they had 4B cash and some CFO did a buy back of 1B and in a month the price was even lower than when the buyback happened. 1B literally evaporated.
Instead of rewarding share owners in the long run (like dividends) they temporarily bump up the stock price which most likely benifits the few owners with many many shares, usually granted through stock options, like the executives.
The scam usually doesn't result in any long term gains, and the executives know this, so you can expect to see insider selling.
What this really does (if this is where money went) is take money off the books so the company doesn't look so attractive to a potential buyer who would pay for our purchase with our own cash in the bank.
02-12-2017, 07:12 AM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by Gunga Din
Stock buy backs are a scam.
Look at Deltas cash position in the early 2000. I think they had 4B cash and some CFO did a buy back of 1B and in a month the price was even lower than when the buyback happened. 1B literally evaporated.
Instead of rewarding share owners in the long run (like dividends) they temporarily bump up the stock price which most likely "benifits" the few owners with many many shares, usually granted through stock options, like the executives.
The scam usually doesn't result in any long term gains, and the executives know this, so you can expect to see insider selling.
What this really does (if this is where money went) is take money off the books so the company doesn't look so attractive to a potential buyer who would pay for our purchase with our own cash in the bank.
Look at Deltas cash position in the early 2000. I think they had 4B cash and some CFO did a buy back of 1B and in a month the price was even lower than when the buyback happened. 1B literally evaporated.
Instead of rewarding share owners in the long run (like dividends) they temporarily bump up the stock price which most likely "benifits" the few owners with many many shares, usually granted through stock options, like the executives.
The scam usually doesn't result in any long term gains, and the executives know this, so you can expect to see insider selling.
What this really does (if this is where money went) is take money off the books so the company doesn't look so attractive to a potential buyer who would pay for our purchase with our own cash in the bank.
Just having fun.
So you are saying that the people who control the money at Spirit are using $100,000,000 to buy back outstanding shares, resulting in an increase of the price per share?
Those same people are also compensated with stock shares, so they have -in effect- given themselves a pay raise by increasing the price of the shares that they are able to cash-out?
Meanwhile the pilots, who are among the lowest compensated in the industry for the A320, are told by the CEO, COO, and VP of FLOPS that we must give up our own quality of life provisions in order to pay for our own raises.
I wonder how much our current "ask" in negotiations would cost the airline, vs the $100,000,000 our executives just vaporized in stock buybacks.
02-12-2017, 10:36 AM
#205
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 45
Stock buy backs have to be published?
We are pilots kids, to quote Bendo in my ground school "I pay you to do your job, so just do your job"
I would assume this money was to pay for a couple Mexican 319's with the foot warmer option and may the 319's we bought last year instead of returning to the lessor.
We are pilots kids, to quote Bendo in my ground school "I pay you to do your job, so just do your job"
I would assume this money was to pay for a couple Mexican 319's with the foot warmer option and may the 319's we bought last year instead of returning to the lessor.
02-12-2017, 02:06 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by AirbusRetard
Stock buy backs have to be published?
We are pilots kids, to quote Bendo in my ground school "I pay you to do your job, so just do your job"
I would assume this money was to pay for a couple Mexican 319's with the foot warmer option and may the 319's we bought last year instead of returning to the lessor.
We are pilots kids, to quote Bendo in my ground school "I pay you to do your job, so just do your job"
I would assume this money was to pay for a couple Mexican 319's with the foot warmer option and may the 319's we bought last year instead of returning to the lessor.
02-12-2017, 02:47 PM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by NoAccoutrements
The $100,000,000 stock buyback is published in the earnings report for everybody to see. No assumptions necessary. They rewarded themselves, we got nothing.
02-13-2017, 02:43 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 459
you guys do realize in business its the owners of a business who are entitled to profits first right? employees can always complain but the thats how business works. The board of directors represents the owners (shareholders) and have a fiduciary obligation to get them a return on their investment. the only fiduciary obligation they have to us is to pay us what the agreed upon pay rate is. From pilots down to contractors. Also, insiders and top 5% shareholders only account for .3% of the outstanding shares. Institutional investors, mutual funds, state pensions funds, etc, own over 97% outstanding shares.
When we get a raise it'll be a combination of things. Markets, attrition, lack of applicants, etc... and we will get one and deserve one. But to say they should pay us before the owners because we just want more pay and think we deserve it more than any other group isnt how business works. I can almost here the owners saying the same thing "theres almost a billion dollars in the bank and they are giving the pilots more money instead of paying me?!?! the very person who invested in this company, ***"
Just how it works, when there are profits to be either spent or reinvested, it goes to owners before employees...
When we get a raise it'll be a combination of things. Markets, attrition, lack of applicants, etc... and we will get one and deserve one. But to say they should pay us before the owners because we just want more pay and think we deserve it more than any other group isnt how business works. I can almost here the owners saying the same thing "theres almost a billion dollars in the bank and they are giving the pilots more money instead of paying me?!?! the very person who invested in this company, ***"
Just how it works, when there are profits to be either spent or reinvested, it goes to owners before employees...
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