Atlas operates their pax flights under 117 and their cargo flights under whichever part of 121 that applies, Domestic, Flag or Supplemental.

I’m willing to bet Sun Country is a Part 119 certificate holder conducting 121 passenger under part 117 flight and duty time rules. All they have to do is shuffle a couple OpSpec paragraphs and you’ll be a cargo carrier for cargo flights.

 

It’s already been stated by our CEO, literally in the first 60 seconds of his announcement, that we will be doing this under 117. This only accounts for 20% of our flying... it’s not like our company’s future is hinged on this flying. They WANT the flexibility of our pilots being able to do both types flying in one pairing.
Sure, maybe down the road if we get more of this flying they could make some changes.. but for now, we’re safe with 117 covering our scheduled, charter, and now cargo flights.
We’re not just cargo airline. Just like we’re not just a charter airline. Scheduled service still is the majority of what we do. There is a pretty large difference between us and the other carriers that do this.
Again, this could all change. But this is how it is today.

 

There’s no longer a reason for anyone to even stay at sun country. As I stated before, most people didn’t come here for the money, they came here for a good QOL. Day turns or 2-3 day trips which enabled us to be home and have a family life. Many qualified pilots I have flown with could easily go to another airline with their experience.

Why would anyone hang around here with bad trips, bad contract rules, bad pay. Just doesn’t make sense. Put your apps out now , because if your going to be sent away for days might as well do it at a carrier that respects its pilots and pays well.

 

Do NOT accept any contract concessions to get Amazon flying. You will regret it.

If fact, only accept industry leading because Sunny will be the ONLY carrier to fly cargo and pax on the same cert on the B737. You could be the leading airline to unify the rest requirement rules under one regulatory umbrella.

Better to lose it than be whipped(-sawed) into it.

 

The deal is already done with nothing contingent upon the pilot group agreeing to any changes in our...(ahem)...less than stellar contract. Our rates and work rules are already subpar and we are having difficulty filling classes as it is.

With the Legacy hiring spooling up we have seen a marked increase in attrition in the past couple months and that trend will only continue. This added growth will only exacerbate their recruiting problems. I'm thinking this puts us in a stronger position to get something done quickly in regards to improving our contract in order to attract enough people to staff this flying. Something definitely NEEDS to happen soon or we will have issues with staffing this flying so I believe your fears of the pilot group caving in order to get this flying are completely unfounded.

As was mentioned earlier, our success is not contingent upon flying for Amazon. This flying is in addition to our core business which, according to management, has been very profitable.

 

You forgot about Alaska. But yes, please don’t be like us. Shoot for the best.

 

Looks like Sunny is about to join the small cadre of companies people go to for a free 737 type rating to get additional points on their application to SWA.

 

Start? That's been going on here for years. Even when we had a training contract.

 

So when's your Delta interview?

 

Nice to see you and others turning up here to "warn" people, but, um, maybe you could be a little more accurate.

What you're really describing is DHL, not Amazon. Certainly you name some airlines that fly for DHL, not Amazon. DHL uses numerous carriers in the US. Amazon until now contracted with exactly two (and those two in turn allocated aircraft between their two airlines).

DHL used to be the bugaboo but now it's "evil Amazon", because it makes a better propaganda target.

Amazon currently uses ABX for six (7 in a pinch) aircraft. If ABX fixed its toxic labor environment, it could fly many more. They're an excellent pilot group and they're not being handled well by their managers. Their problems predated Amazon, their pre-Amazon contraction was being caused by DHL pulling down frame after frame after frame because they really-disliked ABX and its management. Amazon was a potential golden goose, but got caught in the toxic labor mess.

Amazon uses Atlas for 17, down from 20, 767s. Atlas also flies extensively for DHL, the Military, Boeing, and any number of ACMI customers. Amazon is only a part of Atlas's extensive business. Atlas's problems are Atlas-made, pure and simple. It is another company that could fix its labor issues pretty-quickly if it brought in new leadership, and could reap substantial benefits in the form of new business. Amazon didn't cause Atlas's troubles -- Atlas's nitwit management did. And all of this applies to Southern as well. God only knows what will happen when the NTSB finally issues its report on Houston; I think it's remarkable that little has been done in terms of formal safety activity given that management has to know what's coming, and I take this as another example of deficient management. I truly hope that Atlas's shareholders give the dopes the heave-ho soon, and bring in someone who knows how to lead and inspire, fixes all the little annoyances their pilots experience (like scheduling/hotels, etc. -- something other airlines seem to be able to handle), and work on creating a solid new contract. Amazon is actually helping to put pressure on AAWW management by pulling airframes due to their inability to perform adquately (2 767s so far, and the 10 737-800s that will now be going to Sun Country).

Cargojet and Mesa, airlines that you mentioned, don't fly for Amazon. Cargojet flies now for DHL. Mesa was rumoured to be taking the DHL 737-400s from Southern, because they can't staff them plus the 5 Amazon 737-800s they agreed to take. But I haven't seen anything official yet, and it ain't done until it's done.

In contrast, ATI, which has good labor relations (to the dismay of a lot of pilots at other ACMI carriers) has grown from basically 8 aircraft allocated equally between DHL and the Air Mobility Command to 35 aircraft (27 767s and 8 757s) in a short period of time, with at least 4 more 767-300s coming next year. They generally treat their pilots with respect and make them feel valued; people don't hate coming to work. They are able to hire pilots even though many people try to tell them how crappy their contract is. They place a big value on personality and have the luxury of doing so. Expansion gives a lot of opportunity to upgrade, which is for now a nice benefit.

How the addition of the Amazon 737-800s goes at Sunny is going to depend entirely on how well management works with its pilots and others to get most people pulling in the same direction. Money may be a part of it, but I'm here to tell you that lots of us trade some money every day in order to have a work environment that we like, or at least don't hate.