GravellyPointer

I thought about putting this in the flight training forum but this subject might get more response here.

Do you log flight time for flights which taxiied back for fuel, maintenance, or cancellation? You were 'moving the plane for the purpose of flight' but you never took off. What is the FAA's stance on this? My airline crew scheduling logs this time as "FAR Block" but I thought I've read somewhere that the FAA doesn't consider time like this loggable unless you actually fly. Thanks.

threeighteen

If you still fly the flight that day, I'd log it.

If you taxi it back, and go to a hotel, I would not.

Ottopilot

I really don't care what the FAA says. It's my logbook not their's.

I log it like this: "If I taxi with the intention of flight, then it's "flight" time and loggable." If I don't then, I don't log it.

Cancellation after taxi: log it.
Reposition on the ground: don't log it.

That's how I do it.

PAMR Pilot

Well I only log time in which I actually left the ground due to the definition in:

14 CFR 1.1

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing

Ottopilot

That's what I said.

PAMR Pilot

We are almost saying the same thing, but there is a difference

14 CFR 1.1

Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing

But most people seem to miss the after landing part of the definition. Which would require you to leave the ground first.

Based on the FAA definition I would say that both of the cases above aren't technically loggable.

USMCFLYR

I think this all depends on what type of flying you are doing.
Like you - in the military it is takeoff to landing + 5 mins.
Naval aviation even had a definition for "purpose of flight" depending on certain circumstances (having crossed the hold short or in tension on the cat for example) for safety investigation reporting purposes; it didn't have anything to do with logging time, but you would think they would be the same huh?
All that time spent in marshal doesn't count for squat
Isn't civilian time (and least in GA) logged based on the Hobbs times?
Do airline actually log block to block or only paid block to block?

I have heard many civilians use the first part of Otto's explanation as basis of logging time.
Interesting question and one that I am sure has been addressed on the forum before. You might want to try a quick search of the archives.

USMCFLYR

Grumble

Why would you log taxi time? That's retarded. Not sure how airlines track maint flight hours, but if it's like the military, by logging taxi time you're adding additional hours to the airframe that weren't actually flown, thus pushing it into phases earlier, inspections before needed, and thus costing money. Plus you're now a pencil whipper. I've never logged anything that didn't involve getting air under the tires. If I could have every maint cancel I could probably add another 100 hours... but it wasn't "FLIGHT" time.

PAMR Pilot

I am assuming all 121 carriers report times the same. We report OUT/OFF and ON/IN times.

OUT = Out of the Block (gate)
OFF = Takeoff (wheels off the ground)

ON = Landing (wheels on the ground)
IN = In to the Block (gate)

We log our pilot time based on OUT to IN (Gate to Gate). However, the company maintenance is based on OFF to ON (Takeoff to Landing).

USMCFLYR

I never logged that either for the exact reasons that you mention. If I remember though back in my civvie days - if I paid for an hour of Hobbs time then I logged an hour. Of course I doubt any of my time on the ground was ever more than a .1 or .2 MAX!

So for those LLLLOOONNNGGG delays where you are sitting on the taxiway waiting for takeoff for an hour or more - that time is being logged but it isn't counting against engine maintenance times or moving the aircraft closer to inspections based on engine/airframe hours?

USMCFLYR