Trans States Furloughing
06-17-2008 | 02:26 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
I'll laugh when they start cancelling flights due to not being able to find any pilots...
(And hell no, no open time...)
06-18-2008 | 08:14 AM
#92
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 384
Likes: 3
From: 757/767 First Officer
No Privity
From basic contract law principles:
You are right, the lawsuit was by the hiring airline against the furloughing airline. The hiring airline lost because they could not make a case that the furloughing airline was a party to any agreement with the hiring airline, thus the hiring airline could not claim damages against an un-involved third party.
This stems from the contractual principle of 'privity of contract', meaning those whose legal rights are affected at the time the agreement is made, and those who would therefore agree to be bound by the contract.
The hiring airlines requested that pilots withdraw their seniority at the former (furloughing) airline. That is an agreement between the pilot and the hiring airline.
The furloughing airline has the choice about whether or not it will choose to acknowledge the pilot's withdrawal of seniority. This choice is completely independent from the hiring airline; it involves only an agreement between the pilot and the furloughing airline.
The hiring airline could take action against the pilot for creating the impression that he has withdrawn his seniority, when, in actuality he has not. This would be a breach of the agreement between the pilot and the hiring airline.
It has nothing to do with any agreement between the hiring airline and furloughing airline. They have no contract between them, and the hiring airline has no privity of contract between the pilot and the furloughing airline. They are simply not a party to that agreement.
There is no federal law that I am aware of (unless the recent integration bill had language to this effect), so you might end up are relying on the courts.
In the past it was common for a hiring airline to require that you sign a letter giving up your seniority from the furlough airline...the hiring airline would then mail the letter for you
Some mainline folks sued someone and won, which set a precedent so that fewer airlines will try to do that now. But a few might still require it, because it doesn't cost them anything. The lawsuit in question was against the furlough airline (which ended up taking the pilots back), not the hiring airline. The point of law was that the resignation had been under duress, and was not valid.
What is fair and right is one thing, but if you actually resign your seniority at a furlough airline you might need a lawyer to get it back. Something to keep in mind.
You are right, the lawsuit was by the hiring airline against the furloughing airline. The hiring airline lost because they could not make a case that the furloughing airline was a party to any agreement with the hiring airline, thus the hiring airline could not claim damages against an un-involved third party.
This stems from the contractual principle of 'privity of contract', meaning those whose legal rights are affected at the time the agreement is made, and those who would therefore agree to be bound by the contract.
The hiring airlines requested that pilots withdraw their seniority at the former (furloughing) airline. That is an agreement between the pilot and the hiring airline.
The furloughing airline has the choice about whether or not it will choose to acknowledge the pilot's withdrawal of seniority. This choice is completely independent from the hiring airline; it involves only an agreement between the pilot and the furloughing airline.
The hiring airline could take action against the pilot for creating the impression that he has withdrawn his seniority, when, in actuality he has not. This would be a breach of the agreement between the pilot and the hiring airline.
It has nothing to do with any agreement between the hiring airline and furloughing airline. They have no contract between them, and the hiring airline has no privity of contract between the pilot and the furloughing airline. They are simply not a party to that agreement.
There is no federal law that I am aware of (unless the recent integration bill had language to this effect), so you might end up are relying on the courts.
In the past it was common for a hiring airline to require that you sign a letter giving up your seniority from the furlough airline...the hiring airline would then mail the letter for you
Some mainline folks sued someone and won, which set a precedent so that fewer airlines will try to do that now. But a few might still require it, because it doesn't cost them anything. The lawsuit in question was against the furlough airline (which ended up taking the pilots back), not the hiring airline. The point of law was that the resignation had been under duress, and was not valid.
What is fair and right is one thing, but if you actually resign your seniority at a furlough airline you might need a lawyer to get it back. Something to keep in mind.
06-18-2008 | 10:36 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: Retired
Pretty simple. If they are so short staffed that they need open time to make up for their shortcommings they shouldn't be furloughing.
If there are pilots from your airline on the street, you should NEVER pick up extra time. The few extra bucks you're making comes at the expense of their job.
If there are pilots from your airline on the street, you should NEVER pick up extra time. The few extra bucks you're making comes at the expense of their job.
06-18-2008 | 01:36 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: Retired
06-20-2008 | 05:47 AM
#98
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
From: SIC
On that open time note, if TSA is using open time to fill in for it's lack of people (as stated previously) and, im a captain say towards the bottom of the list, What would happen when i pick up the open time, is that some bean counter says "hmmmm, looks like we have enough pilots to cover the amount of flying we've got" and a phone call comes telling me i'm an FO for next month....and I've even put MYSELF out of a job...bad deal.
06-20-2008 | 06:56 AM
#99
Banned
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Tru Dat,
On that open time note, if TSA is using open time to fill in for it's lack of people (as stated previously) and, im a captain say towards the bottom of the list, What would happen when i pick up the open time, is that some bean counter says "hmmmm, looks like we have enough pilots to cover the amount of flying we've got" and a phone call comes telling me i'm an FO for next month....and I've even put MYSELF out of a job...bad deal.
On that open time note, if TSA is using open time to fill in for it's lack of people (as stated previously) and, im a captain say towards the bottom of the list, What would happen when i pick up the open time, is that some bean counter says "hmmmm, looks like we have enough pilots to cover the amount of flying we've got" and a phone call comes telling me i'm an FO for next month....and I've even put MYSELF out of a job...bad deal.
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