Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-2020, 08:26 PM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,395
Default Negotiating in the time of Coronavirus.

We have a few pilot groups in negotiations right now. Is anybody besides me worried that the other side is going to attempt to use coronavirus to squeeze the pilot groups?

I donít just mean flying cutbacks - Iím not sure anyone expects the airlines to fly empty aircraft or violate government no-fly orders - Iím really talking about negotiating (or mediation/arbitration) tactics.

I recall the Alaska Airlines arbitrator who was convinced by management to slash salaries by 27%. The infamous ďRichard Kasher decision,Ē was that salary reductions were necessary to ďensure profitability of the airline.Ē

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...rlines-pilots/

Now nobody knows for sure just how the Coronavirus is going to turn out, but itís doubtful the current chaos is going to go on more than another six months - if only because everybody susceptible will have already had it. But I can envision management trying to lock in a five year contract at lower rates by using coronavirus and the resulting slow down for leverage.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 03-13-2020, 03:15 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
XHooker's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 841
Default

I believe Alaska somehow wound up in binding arbitration. Involuntary pay cuts here canít happen outside of bankruptcy.
XHooker is offline  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:59 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XHooker View Post
I believe Alaska somehow wound up in binding arbitration. Involuntary pay cuts here can’t happen outside of bankruptcy.
The issue was management using the current crisis to push for a long term contract with worse terms than would have been offered say six months ago. A short term TA involving lower ALV and similar to avoid furloughs might be something we could all agree upon. My concern is that the current epidemic which I expect to be short term ( say 5-6 months) will lead to a five year contract at payscales or work rules that will lock in such concessions until long after this pandemic resolves. And pandemics DO resolve. Even the infamous 1919-20 Spanish Influenza only lasted a couple of years.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 03-29-2020, 07:58 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
ridinhigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 147
Default

Your union could always take a page out of the management playbook and slow play it.
Its embarrassing during good times how slow a company can be to respond to a proposal.
Turn the tide and reply with a Ďweíll get back to you on thatí.

Bought years in a normal time.
In these times I have no idea how anything will look as most sectors of the economy
are going to be in a fight for survival. Personal opinion and I hope Iím wrong.
ridinhigh is offline  
Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridinhigh View Post
Your union could always take a page out of the management playbook and slow play it.
Its embarrassing during good times how slow a company can be to respond to a proposal.
Turn the tide and reply with a Ďweíll get back to you on thatí.

Bought years in a normal time.
In these times I have no idea how anything will look as most sectors of the economy
are going to be in a fight for survival. Personal opinion and I hope Iím wrong.
Iím really a lot more liberal than that. This is a rough time even for well run airlines. But itís going to be over eventually. Maybe three months, maybe six months, maybe a year, but we WILL survive it. Infection and case-fatality rates are too low for any other outcome. Agree to what makes sense for three months, renewable by mutual consent only. renew as often as makes sense. But donít get sucked into a five year contract under horrid economic conditions that will be much improved in a year.
Excargodog is offline  
Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM   #6  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 24,880
Default

I think we've all learned the hard way over the last couple decades.

Do what you gotta do on a TEMPORARY basis to get through (but be careful, if they file BK then your temp concessions will likely be your starting point for further cuts from the judge). May be better to take reduced hours than reduced rates.

Slow-roll regular contract negotiations in the meantime. Insist of full backpay for all reduced lines, VLOA, etc on the COVID is done... that should hold 'em at bay for a while.
rickair7777 is online now  
Old Today, 10:05 AM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I think we've all learned the hard way over the last couple decades.
Exactly what I say to myself when Iím about to forget that the twenty-six year old Regional captain was in K-12 for half of that time...

But yeah, those who lived it will remember it forever.

And other than that one provision, I pretty much agree with the rest of your posting.
Excargodog is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Staff guy to regionals shavetail Military 65 01-19-2018 04:29 PM
Kalitta T/A - Tasty Tidbits Stimpy the Kat Cargo 77 12-03-2016 08:24 AM
Crew Companion Questions UAL T38 Phlyer United 8 01-25-2016 09:42 AM
Logbook help, Total time and PIC time Protrident Career Questions 4 12-13-2011 06:01 PM
King Air B-200 Question wmuflyboy Flight Schools and Training 29 05-30-2009 08:40 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:18 PM.