Dear ANTI-UNION pilots, you're welcome...
12-10-2007, 11:30 AM
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by HSLD
Political Action Committee, union members pay to the PAC to hire lobbyists to advance union agendas in DC. It sucks that this is what it's come to, but we'll get the best laws we can afford.
http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
Union PACs are the only way to fight them.
12-10-2007, 12:35 PM
#42
Sitting on the sidelines
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 436
Know what your PAC money does...
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
True, but as long as there are guys like this around:
http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
Union PACs are the only way to fight them.
http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
Union PACs are the only way to fight them.
12-11-2007, 08:39 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A319/321 FO
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
True, but as long as there are guys like this around:
http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
Union PACs are the only way to fight them.
http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
Union PACs are the only way to fight them.
Sorry, I don't follow exactly what AirCon is? I read through the website some but it just seems like a bunch of people trying to toot their own horn.
01-03-2008, 09:04 PM
#45
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by NJGov
Sorry, I don't follow exactly what AirCon is? I read through the website some but it just seems like a bunch of people trying to toot their own horn.
...but just in case your serious:
provides for inter-carrier exchange of information on negotiations and other employee relations matters. It is the only legally approved forum for joint study of labor policy matters of common interest to the scheduled carriers.
01-10-2008, 07:57 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 284
Back to the original topic, if anyone still remembers it….
We gottta be careful what we ask for. We just might get it.
Read carefully before getting excited. Conyers said the bill would “make it more difficult for the companies to use bankruptcy as a way to gut workers' wages and benefits." He did not say they would make it impossible or even illegal. Just more difficult.
If we change the bankruptcy rules, then, obviously, bankruptcies will change. Instead of restructuring, a company will close down completely (at least on paper,) reissue “new” stock certificates one-for-one, and then reopen as a “different” company. This means “new” (read: reduced pay/benefits) contracts for everyone at the “new” company, just like it happens now.
This is how it’s gonna hurt us: In a bankruptcy, we’ll all be fired. We’ll then be offered a position with the new company (maybe) at whatever the rates/benefits/work rules the “new” company decides to offer (see also, Skybus). Take it or leave it. No bargaining, no unions (until they’re organized at the “new” company), and no protections.
If you believe this legislation is going to protect you, think about it: Did McCain-Feingold REALLY get the money out of politics? Nope. How long did it take for “527 organizations” to spring up? There are always loopholes. Intentionally.
From the article: "This legislation restores balance to the bankruptcy process, moving workers up in the line of who gets what they're owed, ensuring outrageous CEO packages don't trump things like pensions and living wages, and slamming shut corporations' back door route to gutting workers' rights," he said.
Two points here: Workers may be moved up in line, but, when it comes to bankruptcy protection, as Ricky Booby said so eloquently in Talladega Nights, “If you ain’t First, you’re Last. Second, the “back door” to gutting rights may be shut, but they’ll add a new side door. Or you could say the front door is still wide open.
Despite the rhetoric, (and my Ronald Regan avatar notwithstanding) nobody--Democrats or Republicans--are going to do anything that will REALLY hurt big business. Why do you think even the most liberal house member, Congressman Conyers, is quiet about the details?
But, hey…I could be wrong.
We gottta be careful what we ask for. We just might get it.
Read carefully before getting excited. Conyers said the bill would “make it more difficult for the companies to use bankruptcy as a way to gut workers' wages and benefits." He did not say they would make it impossible or even illegal. Just more difficult.
If we change the bankruptcy rules, then, obviously, bankruptcies will change. Instead of restructuring, a company will close down completely (at least on paper,) reissue “new” stock certificates one-for-one, and then reopen as a “different” company. This means “new” (read: reduced pay/benefits) contracts for everyone at the “new” company, just like it happens now.
This is how it’s gonna hurt us: In a bankruptcy, we’ll all be fired. We’ll then be offered a position with the new company (maybe) at whatever the rates/benefits/work rules the “new” company decides to offer (see also, Skybus). Take it or leave it. No bargaining, no unions (until they’re organized at the “new” company), and no protections.
If you believe this legislation is going to protect you, think about it: Did McCain-Feingold REALLY get the money out of politics? Nope. How long did it take for “527 organizations” to spring up? There are always loopholes. Intentionally.
From the article: "This legislation restores balance to the bankruptcy process, moving workers up in the line of who gets what they're owed, ensuring outrageous CEO packages don't trump things like pensions and living wages, and slamming shut corporations' back door route to gutting workers' rights," he said.
Two points here: Workers may be moved up in line, but, when it comes to bankruptcy protection, as Ricky Booby said so eloquently in Talladega Nights, “If you ain’t First, you’re Last. Second, the “back door” to gutting rights may be shut, but they’ll add a new side door. Or you could say the front door is still wide open.
Despite the rhetoric, (and my Ronald Regan avatar notwithstanding) nobody--Democrats or Republicans--are going to do anything that will REALLY hurt big business. Why do you think even the most liberal house member, Congressman Conyers, is quiet about the details?
But, hey…I could be wrong.
01-10-2008, 08:22 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: A300CAP
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by WorkinStiff
"I would totally respect them if they had some solid reasons, but their reasoning was so narrow. like mainly, why should i have to give up 2% of my paycheck. granted we are all friggin poor but I'm not sure that qualifies as a good reason."
I would glady give up 2% of my pay to be represented by ALPA again. I left an ALPA carrier (bought by MESA) and went to a non union 737 charter operation as a Captain. Decent pay, great outlook for expansion, etc. After 2 years, it was sold to an idiot who almost put us into bankruptcy. Management is now running the company on the backs of the employees. No pay raise in 4 years, no retirement benefits, insurance coverage slowly trimmed away and 5 to 6 days off a month. Now, since none of the pilots will answer the phone on a off day, our nimrod VP is threatening to change our pay to a day rate, "They don't fly, they don't get paid".
After 25 years in this business, I'm a big believer that if you don't have a union, you will get screwed eventually. Hell, Southwest pilots are treated better by management than any other pilot group out there and they are represented by ALPA. They are not stupid, they know it could change at any time.
I would glady give up 2% of my pay to be represented by ALPA again. I left an ALPA carrier (bought by MESA) and went to a non union 737 charter operation as a Captain. Decent pay, great outlook for expansion, etc. After 2 years, it was sold to an idiot who almost put us into bankruptcy. Management is now running the company on the backs of the employees. No pay raise in 4 years, no retirement benefits, insurance coverage slowly trimmed away and 5 to 6 days off a month. Now, since none of the pilots will answer the phone on a off day, our nimrod VP is threatening to change our pay to a day rate, "They don't fly, they don't get paid".
After 25 years in this business, I'm a big believer that if you don't have a union, you will get screwed eventually. Hell, Southwest pilots are treated better by management than any other pilot group out there and they are represented by ALPA. They are not stupid, they know it could change at any time.
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