View Poll Results: NWA/DAL Pilots! Would you be willing to dump ALPA??
NWA Pilot, YES, dump ALPA
16
30.77%
NWA Pilot, NO, keep ALPA
10
19.23%
DAL Pilot, YES, dump ALPA
9
17.31%
DAL Pilot, NO, keep ALPA
17
32.69%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll
NWA/DAL guys!! Would you be willing to dump ALPA?
08-04-2008, 08:49 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 52
NWA/DAL guys!! Would you be willing to dump ALPA?
ALPA's track record over the last 7 years has been deplorable!!! Every single ALPA pilot has paid thousands and thousands of DUES dollars for NO-RETURN. WE have all taken MASSIVE pay cuts, loss of pension, loss of work rules, the LOST LIST goes on and on.
HOWEVER, OUR FRIENDLY ALPA NATIONAL HAS NOT TAKEN ONE "MOLECULE" OF A CUT ANYWHERE!!!
For all NWA and DAL pilots; would you be willing to dump ALPA and start a new 12,000+ strong in house union?
HOWEVER, OUR FRIENDLY ALPA NATIONAL HAS NOT TAKEN ONE "MOLECULE" OF A CUT ANYWHERE!!!
For all NWA and DAL pilots; would you be willing to dump ALPA and start a new 12,000+ strong in house union?
Last edited by SCRWDbyMGMT; 08-04-2008 at 08:55 PM.
08-05-2008, 12:10 PM
#2
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
When did Romans, who once conquered the entire known world, become Italians, an army known as the best dressed in Europe but which can't conquer anyone? What day did that happen?
Rhetorical question only, of course. No one can say which day exactly, but all know it happened.
Same for alpa. The best contracts today are negotiated by APA, SWAPA, UPA, even Teamsters, not alpa. Alpa's running on its reputation, not its results.
Why?
For the same reason the last emperor of China fired all the eunichs. He looked around one day and saw a huge eunich bureaucracy serving itself, not him. So he fired all but a half dozen and got along fine without them.
When alpa staff people in Herndon are making more than B757 captains who pay their salary, clearly something is out of wack. Who is serving whom?
Rhetorical question only, of course. No one can say which day exactly, but all know it happened.
Same for alpa. The best contracts today are negotiated by APA, SWAPA, UPA, even Teamsters, not alpa. Alpa's running on its reputation, not its results.
Why?
For the same reason the last emperor of China fired all the eunichs. He looked around one day and saw a huge eunich bureaucracy serving itself, not him. So he fired all but a half dozen and got along fine without them.
When alpa staff people in Herndon are making more than B757 captains who pay their salary, clearly something is out of wack. Who is serving whom?
08-05-2008, 12:38 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
If NWA and Delta left ALPA it would perhaps mean the end of ALPA as a national union. The damage that would do long term to this profession would be huge. Most pilots are clueless at what ALPA does accomplish at a national level and via lobbying in DC. Its kind of like the CIA. You only here about their failures, you never hear about their successes. If we give up a national union it would be a grave mistake. ALPA certainly has problems and issues. They need improvement however its our union and we need to step up and make those improvements. ALPA carriers have taken big hits however it has not been because of ALPA. It had been because of failed management and business plans.
08-05-2008, 02:13 PM
#4
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by sailingfun
If NWA and Delta left ALPA it would perhaps mean the end of ALPA as a national union. The damage that would do long term to this profession would be huge. Most pilots are clueless at what ALPA does accomplish at a national level and via lobbying in DC. Its kind of like the CIA. You only here about their failures, you never hear about their successes. If we give up a national union it would be a grave mistake. ALPA certainly has problems and issues. They need improvement however its our union and we need to step up and make those improvements. ALPA carriers have taken big hits however it has not been because of ALPA. It had been because of failed management and business plans.
Like any massive bureauacracy, they control the communications, the debate, the bylaws, and the vote. The only communication they MIGHT understand, would be the new Delta thinking about forming their own union.
I've heard from a number of good sources that Lee Moak is set to replace Prater. If that happened, then ALPA national might get reformed. If that doesn't happen, the language of leaving is all they'll understand.
Carl
08-06-2008, 04:00 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I've heard from a number of good sources that Lee Moak is set to replace Prater. If that happened, then ALPA national might get reformed. If that doesn't happen, the language of leaving is all they'll understand.
Carl
Carl
Too bad, because he's the first real visionary we've had. I think all ALPA pilots would be well served with a leader like him.
Or we can just keep "taking it back."
08-06-2008, 09:06 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by SCRWDbyMGMT
HOWEVER, OUR FRIENDLY ALPA NATIONAL HAS NOT TAKEN ONE "MOLECULE" OF A CUT ANYWHERE!!!
Hitler used to love the "big Lie" to mold public opinion.
You're in good company.
08-06-2008, 10:09 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by slowplay
At the Northside Atlanta road show for LOA 19, Moak stated unequivocally that he was done and would not be seeking any ALPA office after his current term.
Too bad, because he's the first real visionary we've had. I think all ALPA pilots would be well served with a leader like him.
Or we can just keep "taking it back."
Too bad, because he's the first real visionary we've had. I think all ALPA pilots would be well served with a leader like him.
Or we can just keep "taking it back."
08-06-2008, 01:15 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Delta Colors Busholio
Posts: 233
It would be an interesting concept to have ALPA National as an umbrella organization, with local, non-ALPA unions around them, but not responsible to ALPA. I know this is the current organization with National, MEC, LEC, etc. But imagine if ALPA was solely a safety and research commision while the actual arbitration and execution of employment contracts was upheld by entitites like Teamsters, APA, etc. ALPA would be smaller, but their contributions to the industry as a whole would continue and pilot unions would have significantly more room to manuever.
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