so the uaw too pay cuts and now ford is able to make money? And didnt the union leaders at GM and Chrysler took over and had to go back and tell their union leaders they are not competitive in any way?

The problem is with public employee unions. With private sector unions, they negotiate with the people who are going to pay them. Public employee unions negotiate with politicians who take other people's money to pay the unions and then receive millions back in campaign contributions. It's really a giant money laundering operation.

Private sector unions are a necessity and have market forces to keep them in check. The UAW is a great example. Their compensation packages got out of line with the market and they are suffering as a whole. When is the last time anyone built a union auto plant in this country? If not for Pres Neo, GM and Chrysler's UAW would have had their pensions liquidated like private sector unions, IE air line pilots.

Teachers and public employees in Wisconsin make as much as twice as much as the average taxpayer there. Who are the privileged fat cats now?

I don't understand how a discussion on the APA turned to the Wisconsin teachers. I don't even think the gov't should be involved in education, but that is a completely different topic.

You buy a hat like this, you should get a free bowl of soup... looks good on you though! Great avatar, couldnt resist!

Well the OP was about APA's support of Wisconsin government employees' collective bargaining rights. Someone blamed our current economic malaise on all unions and it went from there.

On a side note, the Governor of Wisconsin is not trying to eliminate all collective bargaining rights for public workers, just those for health care and benefits. They would retain the right to bargain for pay purposes.

i hear so much wonderful things on these forums about ALPO. The union, or "association" that gave away scope and let 300 hour pilots fly 90 seat aircraft for 22 bucks an hour. Where is your 2% going? Head of "ALPO" makes almost 600 grand a year.

Minus one. When public unions start negotiating their contracts with the voters, they will have my support. Holding the tax payer ransom is unethical.

As much as some may dislike the idea there is no right to “collective bargaining.” If an employer wants to negotiate with a group—union or otherwise—he should remain free to do so. But the right lies on both sides: employees have the right to free association, therefore to organize into unions (or fraternal orders or glee clubs or whatever they choose). But employers have the right to make whatever offers of employment they want to whomever they want, and not to deal with people or groups they don't want to deal with.

There's no such thing as “forced bargaining.” The real word for that is: extortion.

In short, there is a right to form a union, but there's no right to force that union on an unwilling employer, private or governmental.

What planet do you live on? Ok, that's a bit harsh but Federal Law prevents just what you stated.

But not nearly as much as the industry genius' who brought us the Edsel, Pacer, and an over reliance on vehicles that guzzle gas like a Tomcat in blower.