... like anyone who wants reasonable compensation for their services.

 

That's not the problem anymore. The big three auto makers have been making popular quality vehicles in the last 10 years. #1 selling vehicle is the F-150. Maybe not a Tomcat in blower, more closer to mil power.

The problem is that UAW health care costs for retirees adds an estimated $2000 to the price of a car. GM spends more for health care than they do for steel.

 

Just a few years ago Ford F150's, Escalades, Excursions and other road monsters were the biggest sellers. The Big Three just gave the public what it was demanding. Same reason Jerry Springer is still on TV - "the people" demand it. Sad.

And don't dis the Pacer!

 

and the public is doing great now! Maybe they couldnt afford it?

 

I don't think the government is involved in education.

 

Last time I checked, equivalent Honda's, and Toyota's cost more money to buy, have less of a warranty and sell better than what Detroit had to offer.
The Detroit auto unions were most likely excessive in total compensation.
I think using them as the scapegoat is way off base. I guess the product planners, engineers, marketing, and management had nothing to do with the demise of Detroit? Presently, it seems Ford is on the right track. The other two, I'm not convinced.

 

Let me see if I understand your logic. Employees can choose to organize, and the company has the right to refuse to negotiate and if they want, terminate, right? Henry Ford would just LOVE you. Probably has a "detective" job and a baton waiting.

As to Detroit and the UAW...when you design, build and market crap, people don't want to buy it. That's not the workers fault, it's management's. When they build the crap and it dosen't sell? They cut prices and offer "incentives" to entice people to buy the crap. All of which cuts their profit to the bone or they sell at a loss, to try and survive on the cash float. (Remember Frank Lorenzo? Or Peoples Express, who made a profit with 179 seats filled...but the plane only had 177?)

So Detroit did just what Lorenzo did...went in the hole and demanded that the employees pay for their stupidity and poor management. Labor stood up and pointed out that the emperor (management) had no clothes (lousy management, design, marketing and planning)

Management chose to continue to "shrink it's way to profitability."

Does labor bear some responsibility? Sure. They need to go after thier own who screw off and either get them in line or get rid of them. Management needs to clean up too and stop blaming labor.

Teachers paid three times the average taxpayer salary in Wisconsin? Based on what? Are you comparing apples to apples? (Similar educations and job descriptions) or mixing it all in? (Dairy farmers, convenience store clerks and WalMart employees?) Comparisons are meaningless unless they are properly weighted in the averaging.

According to the complaint that they are overpaid based on the population of available workers, then that would mean if the teachers were in a state where it was all say, farmers and unskilled labor, whose average income was less than say, $20,000.00 per year; that teachers in that state should be paid no more than that. While next door in another state full of high tech and well paying jobs, where the average is say $125,000.00 a year, they could cross the line and make more.

Guess which state ends up with the better educated students?

The Governor of Wisconsin wants the services of high quality teachers. He doesn't want to pay for them. He wants them to inspire, but demands that they pay him for the privilege of inspiring. Meanwhile, he gave away over 170 million in tax breaks to the wealthy and businesses and got the Republican controlled legislature to sign off on a bill that gives him the ability to sell off state owned power generating facilities in no bid contracts. To companies like Koch Industries. They then have to buy back the energy they used to own at a premuim and can't sue if the taxpayers are getting gouged on price...becuase he signed that bill as well.

And the PROBLEM is "collective bargaining rights???"

The problem is management in the Governors office; bought and paid for by people like Koch Industries.

 

real close. They sell better because they have been a better product, cheaper to make, parts to import, export. Your engineers, designers, etc, i couldnt tell you off the bat what they make compared globally to their counterparts, but your thousands of union workers on the floor are costing too much. And not just hourly wage, benefits as well. Great discussion guys. Either way, politics aside, fly safe as always

 

Better product and cheaper...interesting.

I'm guessing that there are about 3 million Toyota...and a few dead ones...who might take issue with your analysis. And a few from Honda, Nissan and elsewhere.

Look, the non union plants in the US were built in areas where the auto makers pumped MILLIONS into the campaigns of Republican Congressmen and Senators...the same ones, by the way, that wanted to kill of GM and Chrysler. The word was "let them die." Real patriotic. Real smart, too...millios of jobs lost in the supply chain and the recession would have been a depression. No problem, just keep writing those checks to the Congressmen and Senators.

Their costs are not lower because they are non union. Their costs are lower because they have a younger work force in terms of years of service. In another 25 years, the costs will be where the Big 3 are now.

Wait, you say. They will be non union still.

Maybe. One thing you can count on. When individual workers hourly pay hits a certain point, their job evaluations will start to decline, they will be "counselled" and then fired.

Why?

Because they can then bring in new blood that they can start at the bottom of the pay scale with no benefits.

THAT is what a union protects employees from. From a management that cooks the numbers to get rid of the more expensive, older workers...even though they are doing an excellent job.

You strike me as someone who is more than willing to sit on the sidelines armed only with poorly formed opinions and tell everyone what's wrong, yet you are unwilling to get into the game.

Yet, should something happen that may affect your position and perch, you will immediately run to your union reps and yell "save me!!"

And when they do, you will find fault with that as well.

 

oh liberals, great! Your all right, lets pay them a ton. Maybe on their lunch break they will buy 40's and smoke weed and return to work?! Oh, there is a youtube video of it? Oh, and senior auto workers sitting "reserve" watching tv at work? Yep, you got me.